Killing nationalism is a process that will take a long time and is only really being done because of Ireland being a direct territory. I don't really think it would be applied to other areas.
Providence and the United Kingdom: A British TL
- Thread starter Sarthak
- Start date
Don't worry France will also have pretty good butterflies on its own
All this is sounding really interesting, specially the help that the Irish are getting and how it seems the political scene is becoming more pro British.
Also the Qin surviving and slowly modernising with the summer palace surviving sounds very nice hopefully China's history is less humiliation and more very long road for modernity.
Also the Qin surviving and slowly modernising with the summer palace surviving sounds very nice hopefully China's history is less humiliation and more very long road for modernity.
China's path to modernization will be hard,.especially considering its sheer size and population, but for the lack of word, let's just say that they stumble through modernization and when another power comes knocking the world is in for a slight shock.
Cavour gets tossed even as North Italy dreams becomes real? Ouch. But IIRC his travel of 1859-60 you’ve saved his life, which is probably a huge boon to Italy.
Cavour is out of power for the moment, though yeah his health being better ittl would certainly allow him to bounce back in the future
interesting timeline; if I may just make a note: it would not be called the Kingdom of Northern Italy, it would remain the Kingdom of Sardinia or it would change directly to the Kingdom of Italy, because the name Northern Italy has no historical precedent and Vittorio Emanuele II did not have the authority to create one ex novo...
the name has no historical basis, however it was the preferred name from Cavour, the British, French and Two Sicilies before the expedition of the 1000 overturned matters.
Cavour has fallen, the French protect the papal state and the two Sicilies are clearly in the aims of the Savoy ... if they do not want to offend abroad they could simply remain "kingdom of Sardinia".
Not really. A Kingdom of 'North' Italy only an lay down claims to Venetia geographically speaking. The Two Sicilian government under Filangieri was flexible, and considering the man's diplomatic prowess otl, managing to persuade Napoleon III to mobilize against Sardinia during the 1000 expedition (though by then it was a bit late), it wasn't out of the question that he would support a savoyard northern italian kingdom. In fact, it was Filangieri's goal. In his memoirs he points that if the two sicilies survived an invasion and managed to support a northern savoyard kingdom despite the enmity then the diplomatic safety of the Two Sicilies was basically guaranteed. The French won't really act, considering they were the ones to create the concept of a northern italian kingdom in 1853. The British supported the notion and the Austrians were ambivalent to the idea, and more interested in keeping venice out with a hearts and mind strategy(that failed otl). While the name had no historical basis, it was the most likely name to take place in 1860, before Garibaldi decided to take the Two Sicilies by the storm. Cavour's entire cabinet, which Natoli was a part of, was in support of the name as well.
I find it difficult to think that Austria would be in some way in favor of it since up to 1866 they still did not recognize the annexation of Tuscany and the Emilian duchies, especially if the new kingdom clearly points to Venice.
for the two Sicilies as long as the papal state controls the territory between the two it will feel safe in any case.
perhaps no one would object, but what is the point of changing your name just after a government crisis and a diplomatic failure? leaving "kingdom of Sardinia" until a eventually conquest of the Veneto would make more sense: in fact, you leave every possibility open.
Austria had no clear opinion on the issue and never stated as such. They were only really focusing on retaining Venice and nothing much else, which is why i stated austria remained ambivalent on the issue
otl austria does not recognize Savoyard annexations.
if Austria does not express itself, it retains its former position.
if Austria does not express itself, it retains its former position.
indeed. But in the end their opinion matters little. France, Britain and the Two Sicilies are the powers that mattered, and they supported the initiation of a North Italian Kingdom.
but at this point why not remain the "kingdom of Sardinia"? as you wrote, UK wants a kingdom of Italy, because it wants a counterweight to France and Austria, implicitly, by naming itself the kingdom of northern Italy, they abandon this goal, as France wants. it is much more convenient to remain without a position on the part of Savoy.
That's not really what the French and British positions were. In 1860 Filangieri asked the French and British what they would do if the Expedition led by Garibaldi failed. Napoleon III and Russell both answered that a buffer between France and Austria would be created in Northern Italy named the Kingdom of North Italy under the Savoyards, with the initiation of the Sardinian Cabinet. And that's what has happened.
Perhaps, however that is not the historical situation and I am basing the creation of the kingdom based on something that did almost happen otl. The diplomatic situation in 1860 either meant that the expedition succeeded in creating a kingdom of italy or france and britain would force a northern italian kingdom. And that has what happened ittl as per the otl plan.
Neither France nor the UK could in any way force the Savoy to do anything, as both could not intervene.
However it is your timeline, and I don't want to interfere.