Protestantism becomes stronger in France during the Reformation.

[Eivind]

France gradually strengthened its central power during the late middle ages and early modern times. But what if Protestantism/the Hugenotes became a stronger force than in OTL? In OTL there was a civil war in the latter half of the sixteenth century.What if the Hugenots managed to create a lasting separate state in the south of France? In OTL, during the Thirty Years' War, France supported German Protestants in order to weaken the Habsburg emperor. Is it possible to see a scenario where the Habsburgs would support the Hugenots in order to weaken the king of France (I suppose here that France is still much stronger than the Hugenot state, so that the Habsburgs would see France as more of a threat than the Hugenots in Occitania).

NB! In order to avoid mass murder of butterflies; such a state would obviously influence European politics in many ways, so please do not assume that there would neccessarily be a Thirty Years' War starting in 1618 and ending in 1648, although a similar war might occur. In fact, this scenario encourages an even larger war, since large parts of OTL France would be more directly involved as a scene of war.

 

[Dolan]

More successful John Calvin that having support from Southern France?

I could see the Calvinist State of South France end up organized roughly based on Swiss Canton system. With well-motivated standing Militia Army and semi-democratic voting system that would later evolve into true Democratic state.

 

[Eivind]

More successful John Calvin that having support from Southern France?

I could see the Calvinist State of South France end up organized roughly based on Swiss Canton system. With well-motivated standing Militia Army and semi-democratic voting system that would later evolve into true Democratic state.

It does of course depend on its size, but it should at least be sufficiently strong for France not to be able to crush it. The Hugenots controlled quite larger areas, but in addition to area controlled, other factors also play a role, as fighting skills and disiplin, and of outside support would also help. The Habsburgs were considered staunch defenders of Catholicism, but is it possible that they, like the French did in the seventeenth century Protestant Germany, could see it in their to support Protestants in Occitania in order to weaken the French king? ​

 

[stevej713]

No Henry IV probably means more debilitating Wars of Religion in France. I could never imagine the die-hard Catholic Habsburgs supporting a Protestant revolt against a Catholic monarch though, even if it were against the hated King of France.

 

[Eivind]

No Henry IV probably means more debilitating Wars of Religion in France. I could never imagine the die-hard Catholic Habsburgs supporting a Protestant revolt against a Catholic monarch though, even if it were against the hated King of France.

They might of course also see France as less of a threat in this scenario, and it would probably take a long time before France would accept such a state (just as it took a long time for the Habsburgs to accept the German Protestant states - which only happened in 1648), so they would have less time to spend fighting the Habsburgs anyway. If so, a great war like the the Thirty Years' War, involving many non-German countries might be avoided.

 

[Eivind]

No Henry IV probably means more debilitating Wars of Religion in France.

Or simply a surviving House of Valois With the Bourbons remaining Hugenots and fighting against the Central power of Paris?

 

[Koprulu Mustafa Pasha]

Wasn't it that the French King could appoint his own bishops? If yes, then avoid that and have bigger interference of Popes of Rome.

 

[twovultures]

Perhaps the Jansenists eventually rupture completely with the Catholic Church rather than being suppressed, but still maintain too many doctrinal differences with the Huguenots to unite with them, but attract many new followers who have lost faith in the Catholic Church but don't want to give up revering the saints or belief in transubstantiation? This could give a second wind to the Reformation in France, and gain many new followers to a Protestant movement, albeit one which is arguably pseudo-Catholic like the Anglican church.

 

[BBadolato]

France gradually strengthened its central power during the late middle ages and early modern times. But what if Protestantism/the Hugenotes became a stronger force than in OTL? In OTL there was a civil war in the latter half of the sixteenth century.What if the Hugenots managed to create a lasting separate state in the south of France? In OTL, during the Thirty Years' War, France supported German Protestants in order to weaken the Habsburg emperor. Is it possible to see a scenario where the Habsburgs would support the Hugenots in order to weaken the king of France (I suppose here that France is still much stronger than the Hugenot state, so that the Habsburgs would see France as more of a threat than the Hugenots in Occitania).

NB! In order to avoid mass murder of butterflies; such a state would obviously influence European politics in many ways, so please do not assume that there would neccessarily be a Thirty Years' War starting in 1618 and ending in 1648, although a similar war might occur. In fact, this scenario encourages an even larger war, since large parts of OTL France would be more directly involved as a scene of war.

I'm taking a crack with a surviving Francis II leading to at least a more stalemated religious situation, mind you, I am not sure where to go with that. I would say the Hugenots would aim for taking control of France or at least ensured toleration, things would have to go bad to go for outright secession in the south.

 

[Eivind]

Wasn't it that the French King could appoint his own bishops? If yes, then avoid that and have bigger interference of Popes of Rome.

But my point wasn´t really to make France Protestant, but to make them strong enough to make them able to secede. On the other hand, a Protestant France might also be an interesting scenario. I assume that then there would be Catholic rebellions, so France might still be divided if the Protestant king is not able to take control of all of the country.