Protect the (British) Empire at all costs

[Deleted member 157939]

Harold Macmillian's "Winds of Change" speech to the Parliament of South Africa signalled clearly that the the British government had no intention to block the independence of many its colonies, particularly in Africa. As a focal point in the history of decolonization, it marked the confirmation of a firm shift in British policy towards the Empire (although prior government actions had already moved towards a slow process of decolonisation in Africa_, along with indicating a reposition of policy towards Apartheid South Africa. Stonily received in the South African parliament and by right wingers within the Conservative party, a direct consequence of right-wing alienation would be the formation of the Monday Club.

A British Empire that is more resilient against decolonization is a common AH trope. However, what would be the most plausible set of circumstances be to actually create such a polity? Who would be the most plausible figures to lead such an alternate Imperial administration? Perhaps prominent Monday Club figures such as Julian Amery or Duncan Sandys? At a stretch, maybe other Tory right-wingers such as the cliché yet brilliantly fascinating Enoch Powell? What would the consequences of a firmly anti-decolonization Empire be?

The Empire does not necessarily have to survive, yet must have an administration that is unwilling to decolonize.

 

[Fuzzy Dunlop]

Avoid British participation in both World Wars?

The debts on these conflicts meant servicing the Empire was impossible.

 

[David Floyd]

The consequences? Well, let's start with outright national bankruptcy.

 

[The Tai-Pan]

A POD of when exactly? 1960?

 

[Fatt Shea]

Harold Macmillian's "Winds of Change" speech to the Parliament of South Africa signalled clearly that the the British government had no intention to block the independence of many its colonies, particularly in Africa. As a focal point in the history of decolonization, it marked the confirmation of a firm shift in British policy towards the Empire (although prior government actions had already moved towards a slow process of decolonisation in Africa_, along with indicating a reposition of policy towards Apartheid South Africa. Stonily received in the South African parliament and by right wingers within the Conservative party, a direct consequence of right-wing alienation would be the formation of the Monday Club.

A British Empire that is more resilient against decolonization is a common AH trope. However, what would be the most plausible set of circumstances be to actually create such a polity? Who would be the most plausible figures to lead such an alternate Imperial administration? Perhaps prominent Monday Club figures such as Julian Amery or Duncan Sandys? At a stretch, maybe other Tory right-wingers such as the cliché yet brilliantly fascinating Enoch Powell? What would the consequences of a firmly anti-decolonization Empire be?

It can easily happen if you avoid ww1 or ww2. Or make either or both much shorter. Or if British stays neutral in ww1

 

[YYJ]

This might be one of the most ambitious PODs of all. It is not enough to attempt to preserve the British Empire. The idea of Empire must be preserved word wide, or the British colonial subjects will get ideas from their neighbours. So the idea of decolonization must be prevented from taking root in the minds of the colonized globally.

Maybe prevent the Enlightenment while somehow allowing the Industrial Revolution to still happen, so that the idea of Democracy stays fringe… Prevent the French and American revolutions? A very pre-1900 POD. Steam punk achieves that with a hand wave.

Either that or just an endless dirty war on the part of the forces of Imperial preservation.

 

[Deleted member 157939]

This might be one of the most ambitious PODs of all. It is not enough to attempt to preserve the British Empire. The idea of Empire must be preserved word wide, or the British colonial subjects will get ideas from their neighbours. So the idea of decolonization must be prevented from taking root in the minds of the colonized globally.

Maybe prevent the Enlightenment while somehow allowing the Industrial Revolution to still happen, so that the idea of Democracy stays fringe… Prevent the French and American revolutions? A very pre-1900 POD. Steam punk achieves that with a hand wave.

Either that or just an endless dirty war on the part of the forces of Imperial preservation.

I probably should have clarified better in the OP. The Empire does not necessarily have to survive in itself, yet have an administration willing to maintain the colonies unlike the shift to decolonization

 

[The Tai-Pan]

I probably should have clarified better in the OP. The Empire does not necessarily have to survive in itself, yet have an administration willing to maintain the colonies unlike the shift to decolonization

So you do mean a POD in the post-war period? Sorry, just trying to get a handle on what you want to explore.

The problem is, without India, the rest of the house of cards falls apart.

 

[Finbarr the Fair]

I probably should have clarified better in the OP. The Empire does not necessarily have to survive in itself, yet have an administration willing to maintain the colonies unlike the shift to decolonization

Are you seeking a British attempt to hold on to certain colonies at all cost? As Portugal did with Angola and Mozambique. Would this include supporting White Rhodesia as a self governing colony/Dominion?

Rather than move quickly to encourage independence in Africa and the Caribbean.

 

[Deleted member 157939]

Are you seeking a British attempt to hold on to certain colonies at all cost? As Portugal did with Angola and Mozambique. Would this include supporting White Rhodesia as a self governing colony/Dominion?

Rather than move quickly to encourage independence in Africa and the Caribbean.

Exactly as such.

 

[The Tai-Pan]

Exactly as such.

It is tough because what exactly are they fighting for?

 

[Finbarr the Fair]

It is tough because what exactly are they fighting for?

And why

I'll try and think of PODs in the 1950s that could make such an effort desirable.

Plausible and feasible might take longer.

 

[John_Smith12]

If Churchill wins the post-war election, it's definite that he would have prevented the partition of India outright and would have dug his heels against any decolonisation. I can't say how successful he'd be but can definitely see him deploying troops in India and supporting the Rhodesians in exchange for their loyalty.

 

[Fatt Shea]

This might be one of the most ambitious PODs of all. It is not enough to attempt to preserve the British Empire. The idea of Empire must be preserved word wide, or the British colonial subjects will get ideas from their neighbours. So the idea of decolonization must be prevented from taking root in the minds of the colonized globally.

Maybe prevent the Enlightenment while somehow allowing the Industrial Revolution to still happen, so that the idea of Democracy stays fringe… Prevent the French and American revolutions? A very pre-1900 POD. Steam punk achieves that with a hand wave.

Either that or just an endless dirty war on the part of the forces of Imperial preservation.

It survived for a long time with both of those existing

 

[Avrorrange]

So you do mean a POD in the post-war period? Sorry, just trying to get a handle on what you want to explore.

The problem is, without India, the rest of the house of cards falls apart.

I think doing a Francafrique style decolonization is doable. It’s not like the various colonies don’t have valuable resources in them. Some of the colonies+dominions actually asked the empire to stay and were prepared to pay for the military expenses, but 10 Downing Street said no.It is strange that France started off weaker than Britain but ended up having much more influence in the former empire.More independent countries like India should have never been admitted to the Commonwealth.

 

[The Tai-Pan]

I think doing a Francafrique style decolonization is doable. It’s not like the various colonies don’t have valuable resources in them. Some of the colonies+dominions actually asked the empire to stay and were prepared to pay for the military expenses, but 10 Downing Street said no.It is strange that France started off weaker than Britain but ended up having much more influence in the former empire.More independent countries like India should have never been admitted to the Commonwealth.

I think one big reason was that most of the British Empire (outside of the White Dominions) existed only as scaffolding to the Crown Jewel...India. And when India left the rest of it seemed rather silly and non-useful. Granted, it took a few decades to figure that out but that sense that the Empire was fated to fade and dissolve after India left is palpable in the literature.

 

[Wesley_Lewt]

The Whites win The Russian Civil War

Anti colonial movements get no guns from the USSR.

When faced with anti-colonial movements, Britain continues to say: "Whatever happens we have got, The Maxim Gun, and they have not"

Maxim Gun go BRRRRR

British control of colonies increases rather than reduces as time goes on, weapons technology improves and the armaments gap between colonisers and colonised only increases. India and East/South Africa are much nastier places to live in 2021 than 1921.

 

[alspug]

For the British Empire to continue the creation of dominions needs to begin at the end of WW1 so the patriotic feeling of winning a war can be turned into a British appreciation of the Empires Citizens and the need for the various countries that make up the Empire to be seen as a part of the whole and respected as such. India is a perfect example. The British Crown was loved and it appears adored during the early 20th century, the lack of reward when it comes to freedom is certainly noticed and not in a good way. If for example independence minded leaders begin to notice they are treated as equals and the heavy handed rule is becoming a hand outstretched in support the outcome is going to be different and the financial ability of the empire will increase.

 

[Riain]

Have Suez be successful, that was a real blow to British confidence. Then have Britain morph the Empire into a series of economic and military arrangements, like CENTO and the Sterling Area and be a key player in these countries affairs.

 

[Avrorrange]

For the British Empire to continue the creation of dominions needs to begin at the end of WW1 so the patriotic feeling of winning a war can be turned into a British appreciation of the Empires Citizens and the need for the various countries that make up the Empire to be seen as a part of the whole and respected as such. India is a perfect example. The British Crown was loved and it appears adored during the early 20th century, the lack of reward when it comes to freedom is certainly noticed and not in a good way. If for example independence minded leaders begin to notice they are treated as equals and the heavy handed rule is becoming a hand outstretched in support the outcome is going to be different and the financial ability of the empire will increase.

Unless India is balkanized,India will always need to be kicked out of the Commonwealth/empire otherwise they would dominate the empire/commonwealth instead of the British once they have any independence.They are too powerful and independent in their own right.