Protect and Survive: A Timeline

France wasn't in the military command structure, but it was still part of the political part of NATO. IIRC they were still subject to Article 5 for example.

You're right about the brutalist architecture of the time, it does make everything look like it was hardened. It does make me wonder to what degree the fashion may have been influenced by the threat of nuclear attack?
 

Macragge1

Banned
You're right about the brutalist architecture of the time, it does make everything look like it was hardened. It does make me wonder to what degree the fashion may have been influenced by the threat of nuclear attack?

I often wondered that - even if it's a subconscious influence - I guess the influence of a possible nuclear attack can be coupled with the influence of the actual attacks that levelled so many buildings during the Second World War - even if it was just a sort of Zeitgeisty thing that they never quite put their finger on, I'd reckon there was certainly a bit of influence.
 

Grubach

Banned
MR1, first of all, I want to thank you for a superb "sad but true" history of the Exchange.

I just would pinpoint that Italy should'nt be targeted just in the North but also in some strategic locations of the Central-South. To name a few, radar installations and NATO bases like Grosseto, San Vito dei Normanni, Naples, Comiso, Taranto...
 
Excellent, excellent. Please do continue.

I know you want to concentrate on the North East but can you let us in on any secret information on Liz and Phil? Or Charlie and Di?

Who is nominally in charge? Did William Whitelaw survive? And did maybe Heseltine survive (I've a soft spot for him)
 
Excellent, excellent. Please do continue.

I know you want to concentrate on the North East but can you let us in on any secret information on Liz and Phil? Or Charlie and Di?

Who is nominally in charge? Did William Whitelaw survive? And did maybe Heseltine survive (I've a soft spot for him)

I imagine it's King Charles III and Queen Diana, who according to something I saw on Britain's transition-to-war plan are on an impromptu vacation at Balmoral.

Although is there a scenario where we could have Pierre Trudeau become head of government for the entire Commonwealth?
 
Although is there a scenario where we could have Pierre Trudeau become head of government for the entire Commonwealth?

As an Albertan with a health disdain for the man my response would be... :eek:

What makes me think that Canada would be hit hard as well? Closer to home I would think Calgary and Edmonton would be toast, and CFB Cold Lake perhaps? Lethbridge and the smaller cities will probably survive, but that's all I can comment on personally.
 
How much of the world has been destroyed? How are the Middle East, India/Pakistan, East Asia, etc. doing?
 

Macragge1

Banned
MR1, first of all, I want to thank you for a superb "sad but true" history of the Exchange.

I just would pinpoint that Italy should'nt be targeted just in the North but also in some strategic locations of the Central-South. To name a few, radar installations and NATO bases like Grosseto, San Vito dei Normanni, Naples, Comiso, Taranto...

Damn, that's right - how could i forget Naples and Taranto - let's assume they've been hit as well, and a couple of small devices have hit radar stations - still, the South's doing a lot better than the north now - thanks a lot for the heads - up.

Excellent, excellent. Please do continue.

I know you want to concentrate on the North East but can you let us in on any secret information on Liz and Phil? Or Charlie and Di?

Who is nominally in charge? Did William Whitelaw survive? And did maybe Heseltine survive (I've a soft spot for him)

Nominally Whitelaw's alive and the Head of Govt. (although people are still constantly referring to him as the DPM as Maggie's only been dead a few hours) although given CHANTICLEER's isolation from the rest of the country, it is, for the immediate future, a nominal role.

I was gonna touch upon the Royals in the next chapter, but a brief preview - QEII's alive but Phil's dead - Charlie and Di are both floating around the North Sea on Britannia (in case mum died in the attack).

How much of the world has been destroyed? How are the Middle East, India/Pakistan, East Asia, etc. doing?

I've not quite worked out exactly where's got what yet, so i'll plead the 'information is sketchy in the bunker so far' card - I promise though that there'll be a worldwide rundown pretty soon.

Thanks all for the questions and comments!
 
Last edited:
Dunois, in the early 80's Peterborough would have been just small enough to hopefully escape direct attention, but given how many air bases there are around here, if they're hit they won't need to. Unless the Perkins Engines plant is worthy of a few kilotons that is. I notice from the square leg map though that quite a few ports on the east coast are missed, I wonder what the logic behind that was?
 
Last edited:
Great TL, Macragge - very well-written and thought-out and just chilling and heartbreaking as well. I was born in '78, so maybe a bit too young to remember full-on WW3 terror, but I do have vague memories of those years, Cruise and Greenham Common and the like... I really liked (if that's the right word) Threads (grim as it is) and The War Game, but the thing that the "Old Man" and his wife really remind me of is the Raymond Briggs animated film When the Wind Blows, which, the one and only time I watched it made me bawl my eyes out. I am too scared to watch it again, unlike Threads which I've seen two or three times by now! :D

So good work, etc etc! And I look forward to (dread? in a good way, obviously) the next part.
 
Dunois, in the early 80's Peterborough would have been just small enough to hopefully escape direct attention, but given how many air bases there are around here, if they're hit they won't need to.

I think that in this TL I (well, my family, since I wasn't born till '86 in OTL) am in as bad a position as you. I'm pretty close to RAF bases at Scampton, Cranwell, Waddington and at a push Coningsby. Scampton is the only one mentioned by name in this TL so far, so there is some hope I guess.
 

Grubach

Banned
Damn, that's right - how could i forget Naples and Taranto - let's assume they've been hit as well, and a couple of small devices have hit radar stations - still, the South's doing a lot better than the north now - thanks a lot for the heads - up.

I have to admit, the #1 in this kind of research are the guys of tboverse, e.g. Jan (JN1); but if you could find it useful, I can give you a list of the most probable military & industrial targets in Italy. Let me know ;)
 
I notice from the square leg map though that quite a few ports on the east coast are missed, I wonder what the logic behind that was?

Remember that Square Leg was a Home Office exercise, so the bomb plot was not always chosen to reflect what might be real targets. At least the Square Leg plot was more realistic than the cancelled Hard Rock exercise.
Threads seemed to use the Square Leg bomb plot.
 

The Sandman

Banned
First, I'm a bit surprised that no nukes were explicitly chucked at regions like the aforementioned bit of France, since obliterating your enemy's agricultural land would be a good way to maximize how badly hurt they are postwar. I wouldn't even think it would be that hard; one groundburst in the right spot relative to the prevailing winds should spread fallout over a wide area.

Second, I'd expect that the fires are the real "nuclear winter" danger, not the fallout. The burning cities will be bad enough, but if significant portions of, for example, the Siberian taiga were to have ignited, the results would be even worse.

Third, the two Middle Eastern countries I can guarantee are gone, assuming nukes flew in that region, are Israel and Egypt. Five nukes (Jerusalem, Tel Aviv, Haifa, Beersheva, Eilat) would be enough to kill most of the population of Israel, and the Aswan Dam eating one nuke would kill up to 90+ percent of the Egyptian population.

Fourth, China is a cinder. Concentrated population, lots of vulnerable dams, and likely to have been the biggest targeting priority of any "kill the neutrals" plan from other side.

Fifth, while it may be a bit late, here's my contribution to the Threads theme song idea: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJyz6AcmwvA&feature=related. The song is VNV's "Further", as covered by LifeForce.
 
Top