Protect and Survive: A Timeline

[Sir Chaos]

That's always very possible, given how close far eastern Siberia and Alaska are.........after all, how else could Sarah Palin say, "I can see Russia from my house!"......LOL

"I can see Sarah Palin´s house from Russia."
- Anonymous officer, Soviet Strategic Rocket Forces

 

[Bernard Woolley]

Wasn't that actually said by Tina Fey in a sketch where she pretended to be an officer in the Strategic Missile Forces?

 

[Apollo 20]

It would have depended on if the Soviets knew about Mount Weather, which if I understand correctly was supposed to have been kept secret not just from the Soviets but from the Americans. The Greenbrier Hotel, in West Virginia, was set up the same way, being the intended destination for the Vice-President and members of Congress.

Given the hints Macragge has provided thus far, it's possible that Mount Weather/Greenbrier (and Raven Rock) were known to the Soviets and thus nuked; Cheyenne Mountain was discovered to still be viable; and the decision was made to send Air Force One there.

The question would be, then, how to get Reagan and the others onboard into the facility without risking them to radiation. Colorado Springs is nearby; the Air Force Academy and Petersen AFB are both in the vicinity and undoubtedly would have been targets in as thorough of a war as Macragge has suggested.

Mount Weather wasn't really that much of a secret. A 1974 plane crash nearby (TWA 514) pretty much blew the lid off it, but it wasn't exactly a secret before then, either. If you've ever seen "Seven Days in May", there is a reference to a Presidential evacuation facility named "Mount Thunder", a pretty clear reference to Mt. Weather. What isn't known to this day is how hardened the underground part of the facility is; it is at least conceivable that it is buried so far down that even a direct hit wouldn't take it out.

 

[The Uchronian]

Alaska had just been hit by the time the EAN was activated - it was the Continental US that was hit six minutes after its broadcast; at least one Russian sub got very close to one of the seaboards.

More like a dozen or so, I would suspect..........even the fastest ICBMs would take about 20-30 minutes to just break into North American airspace........and this is northern Canada I'm referring to here!

Mount Weather wasn't really that much of a secret. A 1974 plane crash nearby (TWA 514) pretty much blew the lid off it, but it wasn't exactly a secret before then, either. If you've ever seen "Seven Days in May", there is a reference to a Presidential evacuation facility named "Mount Thunder", a pretty clear reference to Mt. Weather. What isn't known to this day is how hardened the underground part of the facility is; it is at least conceivable that it is buried so far down that even a direct hit wouldn't take it out.

True, and neither is Cheyenne Mountain.

Anyway, will there be any more major updates on the U.S. soon, such as targets hit, etc.?

 

[Hendryk]

You continue to write a TL that, while chilling and heart-wrenching, still manages to offer a glimmer of hope that civilization and man's better instincts, however battered, will pull through in the end. Well done.

 

[Bernard Woolley]

I remember Mount Weather as being one of the facilities destroyed in the novel Arc Light. In that story the President eventually ends up at Raven Rock when the E-4B lands.

 

[Tovarich]

I'm just curious, but why would Alaska be attacked first?
I would've thought it the least likely US state to be 'worthy' of an attack at all, nevermind first, because of lack of military/industrial assets.
(No offence intended to any Alaskan members - your state looks beautiful, and I'd love to visit one day)

 

[Macragge1]

I'm just curious, but why would Alaska be attacked

Alaska's closest to Soviet land missile bases so missiles just took less time to get there. Command and Control in the capital plus a few Airbases make it a pretty important target, I guess.

 

[Tovarich]

Alaska's closest to Soviet land missile bases so missiles just took less time to get there. Command and Control in the capital plus a few Airbases make it a pretty important target, I guess.

Yeah, I just thought it'd be giving an 'early' (by about 5 minutes!) warning to the main US 'war machine'.

Not that it distracts any from your brilliant story, Macragge (if I may add another spoonful to the well-deserved mountain of praise)

 

[QuoProQuid]

Sorry if this is late, but I went back to the known civilian targets list and composed a list of the ten largest remaining cities in the United States using the information provided. I think I must have missed something because New York does not appear to have been destroyed.


I've also just had the very depressing realization that the Terminal Tower is probably the tallest standing structure remaining in the midwestern United States and may once again be the tallest building in North America outside of perhaps Las Vegas.



1.) Baltimore ~ 637,418*
2.) Las Vegas ~ 567,641**
3.) Oklahoma City ~ 560,333
4.) Tucson ~ 543, 910 ***
5.) Mesa ~ 467,157
6.) Virginia Beach ~ 433,575
7.) Cleveland ~ 431,369
8.) Raleigh ~ 405,612
9.) Colorado Springs ~ 399,827 ****
10.) Arlington ~ 380,085


* If not completely destroyed, the city would have been severely damaged during the destruction of DC.
** May have been destroyed with Nellis Air Force Base.
*** May have been destroyed due to being within the vicinity of Davis-Monthan AFB, Luke AFB, Williams AFB and a Marine Corps Air Station.
**** Very likely destroyed due to NORAD HQ being within city limits

 

[Macragge1]

Sorry if this is late, but I went back to the known civilian targets list and composed a list of the ten largest remaining cities in the United States using the information provided. I think I must have missed something because New York does not appear to have been destroyed.


I've also just had the very depressing realization that the Terminal Tower is probably the tallest standing structure remaining in the midwestern United States and may once again be the tallest building in North America outside of New York and Las Vegas.



1.) New York ~ 8,391,881
2.) Baltimore ~ 637,418*
3.) Las Vegas ~ 567,641**
4.) Oklahoma City ~ 560,333
5.) Tucson ~ 543, 910 ***
6.) Mesa ~ 467,157
7.) Virginia Beach ~ 433,575
8.) Cleveland ~ 431,369
9.) Raleigh ~ 405,612
10.) Colorado Springs ~ 399,827 ****



* If not completely destroyed, the city would have been severely damaged during the destruction of DC.
** May have been destroyed with Nellis Air Force Base.
*** May have been destroyed due to being within the vicinity of Davis-Monthan AFB, Luke AFB, Williams AFB and a Marine Corps Air Station.
**** Very likely destroyed due to NORAD HQ being within city limits

Looking back on my list, 'NYC' is on it - It's probably my fault for writing it in shorthand meaning you missed it.

Thanks for the info - it's really informative, especially given how shaky my grasp of American geography is.

 

[QuoProQuid]

Looking back on my list, 'NYC' is on it - It's probably my fault for writing it in shorthand meaning you missed it.

Thanks for the info - it's really informative, especially given how shaky my grasp of American geography is.

Oh duh. You are right. I was using Ctrl + F and searching New York City. My mistake. I should have searched under NYC.

Well, I guess that makes Baltimore or Las Vegas the largest city in the US and Arlington, Texas the 10th. Please note, I was using modern population figures in this. Once I can find figures for the 1980s, I'll change it.

 

[Brky2020]

Alaska's closest to Soviet land missile bases so missiles just took less time to get there. Command and Control in the capital plus a few Airbases make it a pretty important target, I guess.

The Alaskan oil pipeline would be of immense interest, I'd guess.

 

[Brky2020]

Sorry if this is late, but I went back to the known civilian targets list and composed a list of the ten largest remaining cities in the United States using the information provided. I think I must have missed something because New York does not appear to have been destroyed.


I've also just had the very depressing realization that the Terminal Tower is probably the tallest standing structure remaining in the midwestern United States and may once again be the tallest building in North America outside of perhaps Las Vegas.



1.) Baltimore ~ 637,418*
2.) Las Vegas ~ 567,641**
3.) Oklahoma City ~ 560,333
4.) Tucson ~ 543, 910 ***
5.) Mesa ~ 467,157
6.) Virginia Beach ~ 433,575
7.) Cleveland ~ 431,369
8.) Raleigh ~ 405,612
9.) Colorado Springs ~ 399,827 ****
10.) Arlington ~ 380,085


* If not completely destroyed, the city would have been severely damaged during the destruction of DC.
** May have been destroyed with Nellis Air Force Base.
*** May have been destroyed due to being within the vicinity of Davis-Monthan AFB, Luke AFB, Williams AFB and a Marine Corps Air Station.
**** Very likely destroyed due to NORAD HQ being within city limits

A few observations:

1. Arlington would undoubtedly be affected by the Dallas and Fort Worth blasts, being that the city is part of the DFW Metroplex.

2. Was Norfolk hit? If so, then Virginia Beach has damage as well from the Norfolk blast and is in a similar situation to Baltimore.

3. I'd say Tucson is gone because of the AFBs and the Air Station.

 

[Brky2020]

Mount Weather wasn't really that much of a secret. A 1974 plane crash nearby (TWA 514) pretty much blew the lid off it, but it wasn't exactly a secret before then, either. If you've ever seen "Seven Days in May", there is a reference to a Presidential evacuation facility named "Mount Thunder", a pretty clear reference to Mt. Weather. What isn't known to this day is how hardened the underground part of the facility is; it is at least conceivable that it is buried so far down that even a direct hit wouldn't take it out.

Thanks for the clarification. Perhaps I got Mount Weather mixed up with the Greenbrier complex.

 

[Brky2020]

Having done research on potential nuclear targets in the US for a WWIII timeline elsewhere on the web, I was surprised to see how close many military bases are to major population centers.

For example, Nellis AFB is only about 14 miles from Caesar's Palace in Las Vegas.

In an all-out exchange (which if I understand correctly happened in this TL, please correct me if I'm wrong), I can't see how a missile intended to take out the entire installation would NOT also take out the adjacent city/town.

 

[WCDouglas]

(snipped) 2. Was Norfolk hit? If so, then Virginia Beach has damage as well from the Norfolk blast and is in a similar situation to Baltimore. (snipped)

I would assess that in this scenerio, were both sides had time to fully moblize, Hampton Roads would have been hit hard. Very likely second only to NOVA-DC-BALT.

So, hits on Oceana NAS in Virginia Beach (likey several), Norfolk Naval Shipyard (in Portsmouth), Norfolk Naval Base (likely several), Newport News Shipbuilding, Langley AFB (several), Yorktown Weapons Station, FT Eustis (logical hub). That's 7+

Also likely targets the Ghost Fleet in the James (double kill that gets Surrey Nuclear power station), Northwest NS (comms), FT Monroe (command post) & Norfolk Downtown.

And if the Soviets have the weapons it's very possible they denotate weapons in the Roads and the channel out to Cape Henry or further to get any ships trying to get out.

Break, for me, while I'm in Greenville, NC (2 hours south of Norfolk, 1 hour North of Jacksonville NC) my family in 5 miles north of Ocean NAS. They're gone.

 

[Mario Rossi]

Alaska's closest to Soviet land missile bases so missiles just took less time to get there. Command and Control in the capital plus a few Airbases make it a pretty important target, I guess.

I'm sorry to reiterate, but how many hours have elapsed between the Soviet response to the American first tactical device and The Exchange?

Like some other Faithful Readers I've retraced the whole story and so I've developed some trivial questions, specifically about timing of the attacks; beside the Kassel strikes, it's mentioned, in the Whitelaw NATO report, of "tactical" devices used in Norway and Austria. Were these bombings happened as reaction to others NATO tac-nukes (something like "Let's try to contain the escalation, Use them only when they use them") or the Soviets has already set their strategy to "Go for broke by any means necessary" and after the retaillation they've started to use nukes as first-strikers?

 

[Macragge1]

I'm sorry to reiterate, but how many hours have elapsed between the Soviet response to the American first tactical device and The Exchange?

Like some other Faithful Readers I've retraced the whole story and so I've developed some trivial questions, specifically about timing of the attacks; beside the Kassel strikes, it's mentioned, in the Whitelaw NATO report, of "tactical" devices used in Norway and Austria. Were these bombings happened as reaction to others NATO tac-nukes (something like "Let's try to contain the escalation, Use them only when they use them") or the Soviets has already set their strategy to "Go for broke by any means necessary" and after the retaillation they've started to use nukes as first-strikers?

About six hours passed between the Soviet's response to the first Kassel bomb (two hours after the first detonation) and the Exchange - during this time, Pandora's box was opened on the battlefield and tactical use of CBRN weaponry was undertaken massively by both sides.

With both sides front lines completely devastated and with larger and larger weapons being deployed (including heavy NATO tactical detonations over supply dumps within the GDR, Czecho and the Kola Peninsula), the Soviets took the decision to launch a massive attack on our ability to continue waging war.

We responded. Within four hours it was over.

 

[Mario Rossi]

About six hours passed between Kassel and the Exchange - during this time, Pandora's box was opened on the battlefield and tactical use of CBRN weaponry was undertaken massively by both sides.

With both sides front lines completely devastated and with larger and larger weapons being deployed (including heavy NATO tactical detonations over supply dumps within the GDR, Czecho and the Kola Peninsula), the Soviets took the decision to launch a massive attack on our ability to continue waging war.

We responded. Within four hours it was over.

All clear, thank you