Speaking of Sweden, there are daughters of Duke of Stegeborg (first cousins to Charles XI) but the girls are still underage (AFAIR the eldest one was born in early 1660ies) and treated in Cinderella-ish fashion by Queen-Regent who disliked the family (so unlikely to be used for any arrangements).
Prospero's Prosperity: Spanish Habsburgs Don't Die Out 1700
- Thread starter Velasco
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I was just going to suggest a Swedish match: the rather promiscuous and daring Juliana of Hesse-Eschwege, who needs a husband now her cousin and husband-to-be King Charles is married, and who was fostered by her aunt the Queen Dowager: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juliana_of_Hesse-Eschwege
Another foster daughter of the Swedish Dowager is another niece: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magdalena_Sibylla_of_Hesse-Darmstadt
Funny you should mention the Stegeborg/Kleeburg girls, I had no idea they were treated in a Cinderella-ish fashion. Was there any particular reason for them to be seen/treated badly?
Well, their father was at odds with Dowager Queen, so the family was unwanted at court. The girls were the scapegoats for frustration of their father, who saw them as burden (and treated as such), though the girls themselves were kind and helpful, but as I've said - too young and too unfavored by the ones in power.
As for Juliana of Hesse-Eschwege - giving birth to bastard child in the Royal carriage is a bit too much. Magdalena Sibylla, however, is an interesting candidate. Better borderline nun than borderline whore.
Edit: Nevermind. There is still 3 years before Juliana coming out as whore, and given Swedish interest in the region, Queen of Sweden might try to marry her to Rupert.
As for Juliana of Hesse-Eschwege - giving birth to bastard child in the Royal carriage is a bit too much. Magdalena Sibylla, however, is an interesting candidate. Better borderline nun than borderline whore.
Edit: Nevermind. There is still 3 years before Juliana coming out as whore, and given Swedish interest in the region, Queen of Sweden might try to marry her to Rupert.
How would the PLC react to a king who left an infant son (thereby in need of a regency)? I knoW PLC is an elective monarchy, but when James Sobieski wasn't elected there was a bit of a stench due to the fact that never before in the history of the elective monarchy had the king's son not been elected his successor (it might have had something to do with the fact that James only had daughters at that point, his only son died at less than a year).
The situation will be without precedent and will call for extensive executive reforms. Last time such thing happened (under Jagellons) Polish monarchy was not truly elective yet, Vasas were a little less stable.
So it will call for extensive legislative reform, first of all, and for temptation for whoever heads Regency Council just get himself elected King de-jure. The situation will be not unlike Netherlands when William II died only with magnates playing the part of financial oligarchy. And the same temptation for neighbors to intervene on the part of "righteous ruler".
So it will call for extensive legislative reform, first of all, and for temptation for whoever heads Regency Council just get himself elected King de-jure. The situation will be not unlike Netherlands when William II died only with magnates playing the part of financial oligarchy. And the same temptation for neighbors to intervene on the part of "righteous ruler".
The main difference being there won't be the bickering there was between Amalie of Solms-Brauenfels and Mary of England, and the bickering between the two of them and the count of Nassau-Dietz, and all of them bickering against the Estates. There'll just be a bickering amongst the Sejm, and that could perhaps be exploited by this new king (if he grows up as politically astute as William III did or even Louis XIV) at a later point - divide and conquer.
Well, if the King takes after his uncle Wladislaw... it can be interesting.
Another interesting thing will be if John Sobieski works his way on the top of Regency Council. The situation of Regent is different from the one of the King - less prestige but less accusation of absolutist direction of internal policy.
And like in the case of Netherlands all the neighbors (that involving Russia, as it's unlikely Alexis Mikhailovich, let alone his Polonophile older children, give up the dream of somebody from their dynasty sitting on throne in Krakow - even if as Queen-Consort) will be interested in attempts to manipulate the King. PLC is going to be very... interesting place in following decades.
Another interesting thing will be if John Sobieski works his way on the top of Regency Council. The situation of Regent is different from the one of the King - less prestige but less accusation of absolutist direction of internal policy.
And like in the case of Netherlands all the neighbors (that involving Russia, as it's unlikely Alexis Mikhailovich, let alone his Polonophile older children, give up the dream of somebody from their dynasty sitting on throne in Krakow - even if as Queen-Consort) will be interested in attempts to manipulate the King. PLC is going to be very... interesting place in following decades.
Chapter XV: Those Pesky Pfalzers
It was with some reluctance that Prince Rupert of the Rhine took possession of his new principality of Verden. Conquered from the Swedes by the Emperor, the ministers of Austria had counselled the Emperor to bestow it upon an agreeable Prince to administer it as his direct vassal, the enclave being too distant from his other domains (not to mention too Protestant) to be anything more than a drain on Hapsburg resources. Rupert was not the only candidate considered, but had been chosen on two counts: firstly, as a means of appeasing his disgruntled brother the Palatine, who was very sore at having made no territorial gains of his own, and secondly as a check to growing Danish and Brandenburger influence in the region.
The Emperor was eager to prevent an alliance between Rupert and the aforementioned neighbors: Imperial agents dissuaded the Prince from pursuing a daughter of the Danish monarch or either of the royal foster-sisters (and first cousins) the Swedish were offering in a futile attempt to maintain some modicum of influence over Verden's affairs. At length the fifty year old bachelor set his sights on Albertine Agnes of Orange-Nassau. The right brand of Protestant she was of proven fertility as a wife and administrative skill as Regent for her son. The King of England and the lady's ambitious mother, the Dowager Princess Amalia, actively promoted the match, thinking that Rupert's marriage to the aunt of the Prince of Orange would go some way toward healing the wounds of the recent Anglo-Dutch conflict. The Dutch leader De Witt however feared Rupert's potential influence on Dutch politics at the side of the Regent of Friesland and Groningen; Albertine Agnes was forced to make over the Regency to her formidable mother before she could accept Rupert's proposal.
The two were married in London, before the English royal court, in great honour: they proceeded to the continent, where they visited the Emperor and several other German courts. The hoped-for son, Frederick Charles (Friedrich Carl), followed in due time.
Albertine Agnes of Nassau ~ Princess of Verden, Duchess of Cumberland & Countess of Holderness
Rupert's marriage did not bring about an immediate reconciliation with his elder brother Charles I Louis, the Elector Palatine, with whom he had quarreled in past times. Rupert held fast to his promise not to step foot in Charles' court: Charles longed for Rupert's childlessness so he might have Verden for himself. Rupert's new influence with the Nassau hampered plans for a marriage between the Elector's daughter with the Prince of Orange: in the aftermath of the Elector's poor showing in the Great War possibilities for her were already significantly injured. The Hohenzollerns were not keen on young Liselotte for their treasured heir, the Electoral Prince, thinking her too old (she was three years his senior). The Elector of Brandenburg (who was the Palatine's first cousin) was however interested in her as a second wife and negotiations were carried on to that effect. Charles Louis made impossible demands: Hohenzollern aid in regaining the Upper Palatinate from his Bavaria cousins, the succession to the Duchy of Cleves for Liselotte's issue in preference to the three surviving sons from the Elector's first marriage.
When the exasperated Brandenburger married a Holstein girl instead, the Palatine was forced to settle for a betrothal between his daughter and the young heir of his cousin, Philip William, Duke of Neuburg, Jülich and Berg. Like the Elector Palatine the Duke of Neuburg had sided with the French in the Great War, albeit with greater subtlety, in the hope they would support his candidature for the Polish throne. He had thus lost the support of Vienna, who had previously shown some goodwill to his election as King John Casimir's heir. With the French far preferring one of their own princes for the role, Neuburg found himself duped and ditched. Despite their difference of creed (Neuburg was a Roman Catholic) the two Pfalzer cousins now had good reason to associate.
The Emperor was eager to prevent an alliance between Rupert and the aforementioned neighbors: Imperial agents dissuaded the Prince from pursuing a daughter of the Danish monarch or either of the royal foster-sisters (and first cousins) the Swedish were offering in a futile attempt to maintain some modicum of influence over Verden's affairs. At length the fifty year old bachelor set his sights on Albertine Agnes of Orange-Nassau. The right brand of Protestant she was of proven fertility as a wife and administrative skill as Regent for her son. The King of England and the lady's ambitious mother, the Dowager Princess Amalia, actively promoted the match, thinking that Rupert's marriage to the aunt of the Prince of Orange would go some way toward healing the wounds of the recent Anglo-Dutch conflict. The Dutch leader De Witt however feared Rupert's potential influence on Dutch politics at the side of the Regent of Friesland and Groningen; Albertine Agnes was forced to make over the Regency to her formidable mother before she could accept Rupert's proposal.
The two were married in London, before the English royal court, in great honour: they proceeded to the continent, where they visited the Emperor and several other German courts. The hoped-for son, Frederick Charles (Friedrich Carl), followed in due time.
Albertine Agnes of Nassau ~ Princess of Verden, Duchess of Cumberland & Countess of Holderness
Rupert's marriage did not bring about an immediate reconciliation with his elder brother Charles I Louis, the Elector Palatine, with whom he had quarreled in past times. Rupert held fast to his promise not to step foot in Charles' court: Charles longed for Rupert's childlessness so he might have Verden for himself. Rupert's new influence with the Nassau hampered plans for a marriage between the Elector's daughter with the Prince of Orange: in the aftermath of the Elector's poor showing in the Great War possibilities for her were already significantly injured. The Hohenzollerns were not keen on young Liselotte for their treasured heir, the Electoral Prince, thinking her too old (she was three years his senior). The Elector of Brandenburg (who was the Palatine's first cousin) was however interested in her as a second wife and negotiations were carried on to that effect. Charles Louis made impossible demands: Hohenzollern aid in regaining the Upper Palatinate from his Bavaria cousins, the succession to the Duchy of Cleves for Liselotte's issue in preference to the three surviving sons from the Elector's first marriage.
When the exasperated Brandenburger married a Holstein girl instead, the Palatine was forced to settle for a betrothal between his daughter and the young heir of his cousin, Philip William, Duke of Neuburg, Jülich and Berg. Like the Elector Palatine the Duke of Neuburg had sided with the French in the Great War, albeit with greater subtlety, in the hope they would support his candidature for the Polish throne. He had thus lost the support of Vienna, who had previously shown some goodwill to his election as King John Casimir's heir. With the French far preferring one of their own princes for the role, Neuburg found himself duped and ditched. Despite their difference of creed (Neuburg was a Roman Catholic) the two Pfalzer cousins now had good reason to associate.
If Liselotte goes to the Hague, as she initially planned, then the major OTL candidates are removed (Orleans girls are out of picture, obviously).
What of Maria-Francisca of Savoy (OTL Queen of Portugal) TTL?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Francisca_of_Savoy
Also, failing the offer of her niece, Anna Gonzaga might offer one of her daughters - Louise-Marie or Benedicta-Henrietta, maybe. That exhaust domestic "princesses etranger" of suitable rank.
Mary of York is too young, being born in 1662, so she's out of the picture for a while.
Now foreigners:
1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_of_Modena - slightly underage girl (born in 1658), can be considered for France instead of England here.
2. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claudia_Felicitas_of_Austria - I thought she's not taken so far TTL
3. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eleonor_Magdalene_of_Neuburg - definitely not taken TTL
4. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_Isabella_Gonzaga - an interesting candidate to spice up stuff in Italy, though unlikely one, as Eleonora Gonzaga will still try and arrange her marriage as OTL.
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That's seven candidates (three domestic, one semi-domestic and three foreign) to choose from. Tyrol candidate is highly unlikely in terms of foreign policy, and from domestic ones, if Maria Francisca of Savoy is not taken, I see her the most likely one (Duchy of Aumale for dowry etc.).
What of Maria-Francisca of Savoy (OTL Queen of Portugal) TTL?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Francisca_of_Savoy
Also, failing the offer of her niece, Anna Gonzaga might offer one of her daughters - Louise-Marie or Benedicta-Henrietta, maybe. That exhaust domestic "princesses etranger" of suitable rank.
Mary of York is too young, being born in 1662, so she's out of the picture for a while.
Now foreigners:
1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_of_Modena - slightly underage girl (born in 1658), can be considered for France instead of England here.
2. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claudia_Felicitas_of_Austria - I thought she's not taken so far TTL
3. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eleonor_Magdalene_of_Neuburg - definitely not taken TTL
4. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_Isabella_Gonzaga - an interesting candidate to spice up stuff in Italy, though unlikely one, as Eleonora Gonzaga will still try and arrange her marriage as OTL.
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That's seven candidates (three domestic, one semi-domestic and three foreign) to choose from. Tyrol candidate is highly unlikely in terms of foreign policy, and from domestic ones, if Maria Francisca of Savoy is not taken, I see her the most likely one (Duchy of Aumale for dowry etc.).
Thank you, great stuff.
Since I had the King of Portugal marry Élisabeth Marguerite d'Orléans, and her sister Françoise is still married to the Duke of Savoy (these girls being Mademoiselle's half-sisters) the Savoie-Nemours girls are both unprovided for. I guess given their birth and rank they would have made good marriages. Maybe Philippe could be like the medieval Duke of Clarence, marrying one sister and trying to stop the other one from getting married, in order to gobble up the whole Savoie-Nemours inheritance (they got everything except the actual title). There's a general dirth of good Catholic families around, perhaps I'll take a look in Italy...although I might just have to overlook the two Savoie-Nemours girls for expediency sake, otherwise I'll spend too much time tying up dynastic loose ends and not progressing with the story.
Mantua and Guastalla are interesting points - butterflies ITTL could well take care of the extinction of the Gonzagas in the male line, or see Gonzaga girls married elsewhere...hmm.
Out of the girls listed, I'd agree Anna Isabella Gonzaga and Claudia Felicitas are the least likely...Neuburg is a good safe match, but not very profitable (besides her family's famous fertility)...Mary of Modena is interesting, although I can't help but wonder if the snooty Bourbons wouldn't think the daughter of a mere Martinozzi as being beneath them.
I really wanted Maria of Nassau, but I felt it would be sort of "unfaithful" to kill hr husband off willy-nilly or delay their marriage for no reason. Thankfully she had a widowed sister with a nice backstory who offers lots of potential in case of future Anglo-Dutch conflicts etc. Perhaps Rupert will also play a part in the marriages of her children, altering what happens to them too.
Out of Italians, Mary of Modena and Anna Isabella Gonzaga are the only ones with somewhat of a pedigree of marriage age as of 1670 - all the rest of high-profile brides are underage.
I think that since Marie-Jeanne of Savoy-Nemours is still married to Duke of Lorraine TTL (no reason for hasty divorce) her sister is a free game. Duke of Orleans got a bulk of Nemours titles in 1671 OTL anyways, but here he can get titles AND a girl.
Considering how high the Mazarinettes flew (into the cadet branches of the French royal family) this is unlikely, since Mary of Modena would be niece of the princess de Conti - Maria Anna Martinozzi - as well as second cousin (or such) of the ducs de Vendome, duchesse de Bouillon and the future comte de la Meilleraye.
Oh - I'd completely forgotten about her entanglement with Prince Charles of Lorraine. I imagine their story would play out much the same as OTL though - he'd have no special reason to hold on to her here, versus real life?
What you say Orleans fits though...hmm.
That is true. Plus I think being the daughter of a reigning house supersedes any "imperfections" in her pedigree, except for the snootiest among the great houses of Germany.
Nice to have this back
Thank you
