Proposals and War Aims That Didn't Happen Map Thread

Now if this could be rendered in Worlda and QBAM
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ahmedali

Banned
From this twitter thread; it was called the Bevin-Sforza Plan and apparently it failed by one vote in the UN at the time in 1949 due to the Haitian delegate (who voted against the instructions of the Haitian president at the time):

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Now if this could be rendered in Worlda and QBAM then given how close the vote apparently was this would be ripe grounds for alternate history stories that wanted to introduce minor changes that have big consequences on the map.
Thank you
 
it was called the Bevin-Sforza Plan and apparently it failed by one vote in the UN at the time in 1949 due to the Haitian delegate (who voted against the instructions of the Haitian president at the time)
Weird to think that Haiti could have drastically changed the borders of East Africa of all places
 
I was trying to find one thing I heard/read/saw somewhere : one centralized Russo-centric Soviet Union proposed by Stalin but got no clue where I could find it.
"In August 1922, Joseph Stalin and Sergo Ordzhonikidze, his right-hand man in the Caucasus (the region encompassing Georgia, Armenia and Azerbaijan, formed a special commission to recommend a new model of relations between the communist Party’s Central Committee, Russia and the republics. Stalin’s proposal, which he called the 'autonomization of the republics,' was quite simple. The formally independent republics would be incorporated into the Russian Soviet Federation with rights of autonomy. The government bodies of the Russian Federation would become the central institutions of Soviet rule, exercising control over formally autonomous republics" (Plokhy, 2019)
 
The Union of Soviet Sovereign Republics (Союз Советских Суверенных Республик), both a well-known proposal, and also a question for this map I am working on, how exactly should the areas of this new USSR be colored? should these colors representing the default autonomous areas of the USSR be left untouched, or the non-Russian states like Ukraine, Belarus, Kazakhstan, etc. have lighter colors as autonomous areas?

New USSR with all of its referendum states included:
NewUSSR1.png

New USSR with Nakhchivan independent:
sovereignussrwithnakhchivan.png

New USSR with Ukraine independent:
Union_of_Soviet_Sovereign_Republics_Independent_Ukraine.png

New USSR: with Ukraine independent but not Crimea:
Union_of_Soviet_Sovereign_Republics_Crimea_Lmao.png

union_of_soviet_sovereign_republics_crimea_lmao-png.793571
New USSR with the pro-Soviet Transnistria, Gagauzia, Abkhazia, and South Ossetia as part of it:
NewUSSRGagauziaTransnistriaetc1.png

union_of_soviet_sovereign_republics_crimea_lmao-png.793571
New USSR with Ukraine independent, but including Crimea, meanwhile Abkhazia and South Ossetia remain in the USSR, and the pro-Soviet Transnistria and Gagauzia become separate pro-Russian puppet states similar to OTL.
NewUSSRGagauziaTransnistria.png



Edit: Added the Nakhchivan Autonomous Republic as independent, they seceded from the Soviet Union in 20 January 1990, having been the first part of the USSR to secede, I wonder how Nakhchivan would be doing if the Union of Soviet Sovereign Republics was implemented?

Edit 2: Added two versions of this new USSR because apparently, Nakhchivan cancelled its independence only 8 days later.

Edit 3: Added a new map with Ukraine independent.

Edit 4: Added yet another new map with Ukraine independent but lacking Crimea.

Edit 5: Added more variants, including Transnistria, Gagauzia, Abkhazia, and South Ossetia, I will fix this mess of a post another day, but you can see what the scenarios look like.
 

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The Union of Soviet Sovereign Republics (Союз Советских Суверенных Республик), both a well-known proposal, and also a question for this map I am working on, how exactly should the areas of this new USSR be colored? should these colors representing the default autonomous areas of the USSR be left untouched, or the non-Russian states like Ukraine, Belarus, Kazakhstan, etc. have lighter colors as autonomous areas?
View attachment 792152

I would think that other SSRs would be same colours as Russia due to being similar to US States and the regular subdivisions of the Union.
 
A satirical map from the time of the 1905 Russian Revolution (possibly made by the black-hundredists). The quality leaves much to be desired, but I'm pretty sure I got most of the captions right. Modern names of cities and peoples are given in parentheses.
hBonclo.png

European Russia.
1) [Republic of] Finland, Gel'singfors (Helsinki), St. Petersburg, Arkhangelsk
2) Samoyed (Nenets) Republic
3) Ost[yak (Khanty) Republic]
4) Cheremiss (Mari) Republic, Perm
5) Votyak (Udmurtian) Republic, Vyatka (Kirov)
6) Commercial Republic, Nizhny Novgorod, Yaroslavl [In these cities were the largest fairs of the Russian Empire.]
7) Zyryan (Komi) republic, Vologda
8) Exclusive possessions of the Zemsky Congress, Tver [I'm not sure why Tver was chosen. Maybe for no reason at all.]
9) Novgorod Republic, Novgorod
10) Pskov Republic, Pskov
11) Estonian Republic, Revel (Tallinn)
12) [Islands] of the Baltic Barons
13) Latvian Republic, Riga
14) Polish Kingdom, Warsaw
15) Lithuanian Republic, Vilna (Vilnius)
16) Smolensk Republic, Smolensk
17) Moscow Tsardom, Moscow
18) Suzdal Republic, Vladimir
19) Mordovian Republic, Saratov
20) Kazan Khanate, Kazan
21) Bashkir Republic, Ufa
22) Karakalpa[k] Republic [As far as I understand, the Kazakhs were then called Karakirgiz, so this is either a mistake or maybe an attempt to joke.]
23) Ural Republic, Orenburg
24) Kalmyk Republic, Astrakhan
25) German Colony, Samara
26) Don Republic, Novocherkassk
27) Voronezh Republic, Voronezh
28) Samovar Republic, Tula [A Russian saying equivalent to "carrying coal to Newcastle" is "to travel to Tula with one's own samovar."]
29) Berdychiv Republic, Berdychiv, Kyiv [It is clearly implied that this is a Jewish republic.]
30) Drevlian Republic, Ovruch
31) Colonial possessions of the Berdychiv Republic, Gomel
32) Little Russian Republic, Poltava
33) Romani Republic, Kishinev (Chișinău) [Yes, not Romanian, but Roma.]
34) Colonial possessions of the Berdychiv Republic, Odessa
35) Zaporozhian Sich
36) Crimean Khanate, Bakhchysarai
37) Turkish Delight Republic, Taganrog (?) [Geographically Taganrog does not seem to be quite there, but the first letter is clearly a T and there was some Turkish population in Taganrog.]
38) Kuban Republic
39) Colonial possessions of the Polish Kingdom, Rostov-on-Don, Vladikavkaz
40) Chechen (Circassian) Republic
41) Georgian Tsardom, Kutaisi
42) Sattar Khan (?) Tsardom, Yerevan [Here I am not so sure. But it kind of makes sense.]
43) Kakhetian Tsardom, Tiflis (Tbilisi)
44) Rothschild Tsardom, Baku [Because of the Rothschilds' involvement in Baku's oil business.]
45) Turkmen Khanate
 
From this twitter thread; it was called the Bevin-Sforza Plan and apparently it failed by one vote in the UN at the time in 1949 due to the Haitian delegate (who voted against the instructions of the Haitian president at the time):
The Bevin-Sforza plan was about the Libya division in administrative zone (for 10 years) as Italy administer (like OTL Somalia, postwarII) Tripolitania, France Fezzan and The British Cyrenaica...but failed at the UN general assembly
 
The Bevin-Sforza plan was about the Libya division in administrative zone (for 10 years) as Italy administer (like OTL Somalia, postwarII) Tripolitania, France Fezzan and The British Cyrenaica...but failed at the UN general assembly
The Bevin-Sforza plan was also about the Libyan division into administrative zones. It was about how to deal with all of Italy's colonial possessions (including Somalia). The full plan was for the UN Trusteeship of Italy's former colonies thus:

- Italian Somaliland under Italy (which happened in OTL and was the only part of the plan to survive intact after that failed vote)
- Italian Libya to be divided into Italian Tripolitania, French Fezzan and British Cyrenaica leading up to independence (this failed but in the end we still got a French Fezzan and British Cyrenaica but also British Tripolitania)
- Italian Eritrea to be divided between Anglo-Egyptian Sudan and Ethiopia. This failed and instead British rule continued until federation with Ethiopia in the early 1950s.
 

So I was watching this old video, and the claim was made that there were backdoor negotiations between Kentucky, the British, and the Spanish stating that Britain would recognize Kentuckian independence from Virginia in exchange for recognition of Spanish control over Louisiana and support for the British during the Revolution. However, I haven’t had any luck finding more information on these negotiations. Does anyone know anything about this?
 

So I was watching this old video, and the claim was made that there were backdoor negotiations between Kentucky, the British, and the Spanish stating that Britain would recognize Kentuckian independence from Virginia in exchange for recognition of Spanish control over Louisiana and support for the British during the Revolution. However, I haven’t had any luck finding more information on these negotiations. Does anyone know anything about this?
I've heard of this before, but damned if I can remember where...
 
The Union of Soviet Sovereign Republics (Союз Советских Суверенных Республик), both a well-known proposal, and also a question for this map I am working on, how exactly should the areas of this new USSR be colored? should these colors representing the default autonomous areas of the USSR be left untouched, or the non-Russian states like Ukraine, Belarus, Kazakhstan, etc. have lighter colors as autonomous areas?
View attachment 792296
I would think that other SSRs would be same colours as Russia due to being similar to US States and the regular subdivisions of the Union.
Anyone knows if the flag of the Union of Soviet Sovereign Republics was supposed to be the same flag as the USSR, or a new one?
 
Did they even get as far as designing a new flag?
I believe that no, I even stumbled upon an old thread on this same forum of users proposing a flag for the "new" USSR that never was, apparently this one by Twister Ace went as far as to being sold on Amazon, as if is the official flag of a country that never existed.
41KKbSeZWPL._AC_SL1500_.jpg

Sadly, a lot of the flags are now dead links, if anyone has the flags of these thread backed up I would be very, very thankful!
 
Did they even get as far as designing a new flag?
They did not. The Commonwealth of Independent States, the closest thing we have to a continuation of the USSR aside from Russia itself, didn't adopt its flag until 1996. From 1992 until then, this was its flag:

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Vexillology was clearly (and understandably) not high on their list of priorities
 
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