Proposals and War Aims That Didn't Happen Map Thread

Had Linconia been successful and with those borders in ATL, it could have opened up a shared canal scheme with Costa Rica later on via a route from the Gulf of Dolce to the Chiriquí lagoon [depending how viable it is].

panex0301e.jpg
so no independent panama then?
 
The “I”s looking like “J”s is really messing with me. Was that ever a thing in German? Also, the “ñ” in “Añam”. Maybe that second one is just a printing error or something.

Another thing that stands out to me is how most African colonies are ignored (and British North Borneo), maybe the Germans figured they would let Britain and France keep those (plus Italian Somaliland), and Aden is shown as just the colony proper and not the Protectorate states, while Malaya, which is similarly mostly protectorates, is shown in full.

Also, interesting how Korea is the only territory labelled outside of the colonies in question. Maybe an earlier draft of this was going to target Japan too?

Well that map is missing a lot of places with a Union Jack on them!?

(And strictly speaking Egypt was a Client State not a Colony)
I read the german text as that to make good the unjustice the allied powers did to these specific colonies, the German Empire should annex them to give them directly a form of independence. Herausgabe=Release. That explains also a bit why other places are excluded.
 
MAPOFRAHMATPLAN.jpg


Map of Dinia -- "Land of the Faith (Din)" -- the first proposal for a Muslim polity in India. Choudhry Rahmat Ali proposed that India & Dinia would be a plurinational federation, like "Austria-Hungary," "Czechoslovakia," etc etc. Dinia would be comprised of all those regions in India which either had a majority-Muslim population; were ruled by Muslim princes; or both -- including a region called "Pakistan" (another word he made up; an acronym for the Muslim-majority region in the northeastern part of the country). India & Dinia would have close parity in population, making interdependence necessary; and while Hindus might dominate the House of Commons of the independent South Asian federation, Muslim and other minority princes would be more represented in the House of Lords, and would thereby prevent marginalisation. Or so the theory went, anyway.

As time wore on, issues between the Hindu and Muslim communities got hotter. Eventually the Khilafat Movement (which called for the revival of the Islamic Caliphate after it was abolished by Ataturk; and also for greater Muslim autonomism) was subsumed by the Pakistan Movement (which held that South Asian Muslims were a nation, and were owed a liberal, Westphalian nation-state). If things had gone differently, though, there could have been an Indian Federation comprised of two co-equal states: India & Dinia, the latter of which might have been the seat of a revived Islamic caliphate.
 
Last edited:
The honesty of T. E. Lawrence's map, with big question marks all over it, is in some ways admirable. Also Area C on Figure 2: 'Debatable Turkey between Armenia and Azerbaijan', We know, they're still fighting over it.

It's a shame that the details on the maps aren't more legible, but that could be a licencing thing. Interestingly, while Figure 1 doesn't have proposed details for Asia Minor, Caucasia or Palestine, it does appear to be consistent with Figure 2. The numbering of the maps suggests that there's at least one additional map in the document referenced.
 
Zoomable images of the Kurdistan proposals from the Qatar National Library:
Possible Redistribution of Ottoman and Arabian Territory on the Principle of Self-Determination


Possible Settlement of Arab Countries
default.jpg


It's a shame that the details on the maps aren't more legible, but that could be a licencing thing. Interestingly, while Figure 1 doesn't have proposed details for Asia Minor, Caucasia or Palestine, it does appear to be consistent with Figure 2. The numbering of the maps suggests that there's at least one additional map in the document referenced.
Digital version of the original document from the Digital Library of the Middle East. The Maps start on slide 199, or more specifically:
Map to Illustrate the Agreements of 1916 in regard to Asia Minor, Mesopotamia, etc.
default.jpg
 
Last edited:
View attachment 735890
The Soviets planned an invasion of Hokkaido for around August 1945, with the goal of occupying the northern portion along a line from Rumoi to Kushiro. Opposition from America and disagreement that the plan would succeed from Soviet commanders lead to the plan being scrapped on August 22nd.
I thought the arrow was labeling the thick red line "La Perouse Strait" and was thinking damn, that is a poorly placed canal.
 
These are great :) Especially the 2nd... I had been looking for a way to divide up the Levant and Mesopotamia, in a manner other than OTL, Sykes-Picot, or the Larry of Arabia map...
I had never seen one before which actually took into account the predominant tribes in the Interior regions....
 
These are great :) Especially the 2nd... I had been looking for a way to divide up the Levant and Mesopotamia, in a manner other than OTL, Sykes-Picot, or the Larry of Arabia map...
I had never seen one before which actually took into account the predominant tribes in the Interior regions....
According to the map's notes, the tribes were divided between Syria, Irak, Hejaz, Jezireh, and Kurdistan, based on which of these they were economically dependent on;
though it does note that the tribal borders are only approximate.

The Syrian and Hejazi tribes were considered to be granted tribal autonomy, while in Irak they "will have to be absorbed into the settled population".
 
According to the map's notes, the tribes were divided between Syria, Irak, Hejaz, Jezireh, and Kurdistan, based on which of these they were economically dependent on;
The notes are absolutely fascinating, including recommendations for - in effect - ethnic cleansing of the Karabakh region, a free port at Trebizond to open up trade from the Black Sea to (then) Persia, and Abhkazia to be included in Russia. As well, of course, as a recognition that Arabia was not a 'no-man's land' to be divided up like America or Australia - we'd argue that the latter two weren't, either, of course, but it's at least a start!
 
The notes are absolutely fascinating, including recommendations for - in effect - ethnic cleansing of the Karabakh region, a free port at Trebizond to open up trade from the Black Sea to (then) Persia, and Abhkazia to be included in Russia. As well, of course, as a recognition that Arabia was not a 'no-man's land' to be divided up like America or Australia - we'd argue that the latter two weren't, either, of course, but it's at least a start!
The area marked C is the Karabagh district, and there is a large Armenian population in the mountains, which preserved its liberty against Persia in the pre-Russian period, and has held out against the Turkish invader during the last few months. On historical grounds it should go to Armenia, but there is also a strong Azerbaijani element in the population, and the best permanent settlement might be to bring about a segregation of the Armenians and Azerbaijanis into separate areas by persuading the Karabagh Armenians to emigrate to the Erivan district and the Erivan Azerbaijanis to Karabagh. If this were done, Area C would of course fall to Azerbaijan.
>persuading
 
Nikolay Danilevsky (1822-1885) was a Russian naturalist, historian, philosopher, economist, ethnologist, and pan-Slavist. In 1871, he published a book called "Russia and Europe", where he argued that Russia's history was unlike the rest of Europe, and therefore to be "indifferent" from Europe, Danilevsky envisioned a Russian-led alliance comprised of:
  1. Russia with Austrian Galicia, Carpathian Ukraine, and Dobruja annexed.
  2. "Bohemian-Moravian-Slovakian Kingdom" (aka Czechoslovakia), comprised of the Kingdom of Bohemia and the Slovak portions of Hungary.
  3. "Serb-Croatian-Slovene Kingdom" (aka Yugoslavia), comprised of the Principality of Serbia, Montenegro, Bosnia-Herzegovina, "Old Serbia", the Serbian section of Banat and Vojvodina, Croatia, Dalmatia, Slovenia, the Austrian Military Frontier/Krajina, Istria (including Trieste), and parts of Carinthia and Styria (The latter mentioning up to the Drava River).
  4. Bulgaria, with "large parts" of Rumelia and Macedonia annexed.
  5. Romania, with Transylvania up to the Mureș River and the ethnic Romanian parts Bessarabia annexed in return for Dobruja being annexed by Russia (as seen above).
  6. Greece, with Thessaly, Epirus, southwestern Macedonia, all Aegean Islands, Crete, Rhodes, Cyprus, and the west coast of Anatolia annexed.
  7. "Tsargrad", which would be Constantinople separated from Turkey with added lands surrounding the Bosporus, Sea of Marmara, and the Dardanelles.
  8. The remainder of Hungary except Burgenland, as all "non-Magyar" areas including the areas mentioned above were to be taken away from it.
Nikolai Danilevsky's Pan-Slavic Views.png

[Source]
 
Nikolay Danilevsky (1822-1885) was a Russian naturalist, historian, philosopher, economist, ethnologist, and pan-Slavist. In 1871, he published a book called "Russia and Europe", where he argued that Russia's history was unlike the rest of Europe, and therefore to be "indifferent" from Europe, Danilevsky envisioned a Russian-led alliance comprised of:
  1. Russia with Austrian Galicia, Carpathian Ukraine, and Dobruja annexed.
  2. "Bohemian-Moravian-Slovakian Kingdom" (aka Czechoslovakia), comprised of the Kingdom of Bohemia and the Slovak portions of Hungary.
  3. "Serb-Croatian-Slovene Kingdom" (aka Yugoslavia), comprised of the Principality of Serbia, Montenegro, Bosnia-Herzegovina, "Old Serbia", the Serbian section of Banat and Vojvodina, Croatia, Dalmatia, Slovenia, the Austrian Military Frontier/Krajina, Istria (including Trieste), and parts of Carinthia and Styria (The latter mentioning up to the Drava River).
  4. Bulgaria, with "large parts" of Rumelia and Macedonia annexed.
  5. Romania, with Transylvania up to the Mureș River and the ethnic Romanian parts Bessarabia annexed in return for Dobruja being annexed by Russia (as seen above).
  6. Greece, with Thessaly, Epirus, southwestern Macedonia, all Aegean Islands, Crete, Rhodes, Cyprus, and the west coast of Anatolia annexed.
  7. "Tsargrad", which would be Constantinople separated from Turkey with added lands surrounding the Bosporus, Sea of Marmara, and the Dardanelles.
  8. The remainder of Hungary except Burgenland, as all "non-Magyar" areas including the areas mentioned above were to be taken away from it.
View attachment 741203
[Source]
Seems like I've seen some interpretations of Russian war aims in the WWI era that were similar to this as well... only with the addition of territory to be taken from the German Empire...
 
These are great :) Especially the 2nd... I had been looking for a way to divide up the Levant and Mesopotamia, in a manner other than OTL, Sykes-Picot, or the Larry of Arabia map...
I had never seen one before which actually took into account the predominant tribes in the Interior regions....
I agree, but I think there are sensible ways to configure the areas based on historical regions too.
 
Top