Proposals and War Aims That Didn't Happen Map Thread
- Thread starter Beedok
- Start date
Skallagrim
Banned
Maybe. I'm not aware of it, but it's possible. Lots of country-wanks in AH, after all!Wasn't there someone on the board back in the "old days" who was known for "Frisian-wanks"?
i did compile some proposals for partitioning the empire
(i didn't make any of these maps, i just compiled them)
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I mean, I suppose it makes a sort of sense, given that they owned the Dodecanese. I don't know what they expected to do with it, though. Settle it with Italians or something? Or was it just like an occupation, and they would have left after a while?
The Italian government tried to settle a few Italians in the Dodecanese, mainly on Rhodes, Kos and Leros IIRC. They weren't very successful at it. Built a few nice buildings, but that was about it. Don't think Italian possession of any part of mainland Anatolia would've been too successful, or too long-lived...
By 1772, the Russo-Turkish War was not going so well for the Ottomans. This concerned the Austrians, who feared the Russians might expand their territory all the way to the Straits and gain total dominance in the Balkans. Kaunitz, the Austrian state chancellor, had convinced Empress Maria Theresa to sign an accord with the Ottomans to try and preserve the integrity of their state, but this accord stopped just short of being an actual military alliance, because the Austrians did not wish to go to war with Russia.
In January of 1772, Kaunitz floated a number of different ideas to deal with the present crisis. The plan that was ultimately adopted was what we now call the First Partition of Poland - Russia would withdraw from Ottoman territory and content itself merely with gaining control over the Crimean Khanate, while the territorial ambitions of Empress Catherine would instead be sated by a mutual division of Polish territory. Many of Kaunitz's plans, however, involved a partition not of Poland, but of the Ottoman Empire. After all, the Turks seemed to be on the verge of collapse anyway - why not join Russia in carving them up rather than trying to keep them intact?
The most novel and ambitious of Kaunitz's proposals envisioned the complete ejection of the Turks from Europe and the creation of two new kingdoms: The first consisting of Thrace, Macedonia, and Albania with its capital at Constantinople ruled by Catherine's lover Gregor Orlov, and the second consisting of the Morea, Crete, Cyprus, and unspecified Aegean islands to be ruled by an Austrian archduke. Kaunitz actually preferred partitioning the Ottomans to partitioning Poland and tried to push the empress in that direction, but to no avail. Maria Theresa's policy was guided by her own morality, and she would not consent to carving up the territory of a neighbor whom she had recently promised her protection. Even if such vast lands could be acquired, she wrote, they would be "purchased too dearly—at the expense of our honor, the glory of the Monarchy, and our good faith and religion." Ironically, the Austro-Turkish accord which Kaunitz had himself pushed for became the empress's reason to oppose his partition plans. As a result, it would eventually be the Poles, not the Turks, who vanished from the map of Europe.
Direct acquisitions by Russia and Austria are indicated with stripes. The border between Austrian and "Rumelian" land is speculative, as are the names of the new states - Kaunitz's plan did not lay down precise borders or state what the new kingdoms would be called. The fate of the Danubian Principalities was not mentioned, so I have left them in, minus "Lesser Wallachia" (Oltenia) which was to be annexed by Austria. The Austrians considered a direct Austrian-Russian border to be undesirable, so it stands to reason that Moldavia would be maintained as a buffer state.
In January of 1772, Kaunitz floated a number of different ideas to deal with the present crisis. The plan that was ultimately adopted was what we now call the First Partition of Poland - Russia would withdraw from Ottoman territory and content itself merely with gaining control over the Crimean Khanate, while the territorial ambitions of Empress Catherine would instead be sated by a mutual division of Polish territory. Many of Kaunitz's plans, however, involved a partition not of Poland, but of the Ottoman Empire. After all, the Turks seemed to be on the verge of collapse anyway - why not join Russia in carving them up rather than trying to keep them intact?
The most novel and ambitious of Kaunitz's proposals envisioned the complete ejection of the Turks from Europe and the creation of two new kingdoms: The first consisting of Thrace, Macedonia, and Albania with its capital at Constantinople ruled by Catherine's lover Gregor Orlov, and the second consisting of the Morea, Crete, Cyprus, and unspecified Aegean islands to be ruled by an Austrian archduke. Kaunitz actually preferred partitioning the Ottomans to partitioning Poland and tried to push the empress in that direction, but to no avail. Maria Theresa's policy was guided by her own morality, and she would not consent to carving up the territory of a neighbor whom she had recently promised her protection. Even if such vast lands could be acquired, she wrote, they would be "purchased too dearly—at the expense of our honor, the glory of the Monarchy, and our good faith and religion." Ironically, the Austro-Turkish accord which Kaunitz had himself pushed for became the empress's reason to oppose his partition plans. As a result, it would eventually be the Poles, not the Turks, who vanished from the map of Europe.
Direct acquisitions by Russia and Austria are indicated with stripes. The border between Austrian and "Rumelian" land is speculative, as are the names of the new states - Kaunitz's plan did not lay down precise borders or state what the new kingdoms would be called. The fate of the Danubian Principalities was not mentioned, so I have left them in, minus "Lesser Wallachia" (Oltenia) which was to be annexed by Austria. The Austrians considered a direct Austrian-Russian border to be undesirable, so it stands to reason that Moldavia would be maintained as a buffer state.
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Several years afterwards, another Austro-Russian alliance was formed in 1781 to partition the Ottoman Empire and restore the Byzantine Empire under Catherine's grandson, Konstantin Pavlovich:
Yellow: Hapsburg Empire
Green: Russian Empire
Blue: Kingdom of Dacia to be ruled by Grigory Potemkin
Red: New Byzantine Empire
Cyan: Venice
Yellow: Hapsburg Empire
Green: Russian Empire
Blue: Kingdom of Dacia to be ruled by Grigory Potemkin
Red: New Byzantine Empire
Cyan: Venice
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1981?Several years afterwards, another Austro-Russian alliance was formed in 1981 to partition the Ottoman Empire and restore the Byzantine Empire under Catherine's grandson, Konstantin Pavlovich:
Yellow: Hapsburg Empire
Green: Russian Empire
Blue: Kingdom of Dacia to be ruled by Grigory Potemkin
Red: New Byzantine Empire
Cyan: Venice
Heh, Austrian Cyprus and Morea... had Austria at that time even at least one proper port in Med. sea? (Terst was Venetian, I think...)By 1772, the Russo-Turkish War was not going so well for the Ottomans. This concerned the Austrians, who feared the Russians might expand their territory all the way to the Straits and gain total dominance in the Balkans. Kaunitz, the Austrian state chancellor, had convinced Empress Maria Theresa to sign an accord with the Ottomans to try and preserve the integrity of their state, but this accord stopped just short of being an actual military alliance, because the Austrians did not wish to go to war with Russia.
In January of 1772, Kaunitz floated a number of different ideas to deal with the present crisis. The plan that was ultimately adopted was what we now call the First Partition of Poland - Russia would withdraw from Ottoman territory and content itself merely with gaining control over the Crimean Khanate, while the territorial ambitions of Empress Catherine would instead be sated by a mutual division of Polish territory. Many of Kaunitz's plans, however, involved a partition not of Poland, but of the Ottoman Empire. After all, the Turks seemed to be on the verge of collapse anyway - why not join Russia in carving them up rather than trying to keep them intact?
The most novel and ambitious of Kaunitz's proposals envisioned the complete ejection of the Turks from Europe and the creation of two new kingdoms: The first consisting of Thrace, Macedonia, and Albania with its capital at Constantinople ruled by Catherine's lover Gregor Orlov, and the second consisting of the Morea, Crete, Cyprus, and unspecified Aegean islands to be ruled by an Austrian archduke. Kaunitz actually preferred partitioning the Ottomans to partitioning Poland and tried to push the empress in that direction, but to no avail. Maria Theresa's policy was guided by her own morality, and she would not consent to carving up the territory of a neighbor whom she had recently promised her protection. Even if such vast lands could be acquired, she wrote, they would be "purchased too dearly—at the expense of our honor, the glory of the Monarchy, and our good faith and religion." Ironically, the Austro-Turkish accord which Kaunitz had himself pushed for became the empress's reason to oppose his partition plans. As a result, it would eventually be the Poles, not the Turks, who vanished from the map of Europe.
Direct acquisitions by Russia and Austria are indicated with stripes. The border between Austrian and "Rumelian" land is speculative, as are the names of the new states - Kaunitz's plan did not lay down precise borders or state what the new kingdoms would be called. The fate of the Danubian Principalities was not mentioned, so I have left them in, minus "Lesser Wallachia" (Oltenia) which was to be annexed by Austria. The Austrians considered a direct Austrian-Russian border to be undesirable, so it stands to reason that Moldavia would be maintained as a buffer state.
Trieste was Austrian at this time, but it's true that Austria was not exactly a naval power (that is, they literally had no navy). Kaunitz also discussed a variant of this plan in which the Austrians would offer the Morea to Venice in exchange for Venetian Istria and Friuli, which would probably be a more useful acquisition (assuming the Venetians would agree to it). It's unclear what the fate of the islands would be in that scenario.
Another variant was the possibility of ceding Moldavia and Wallachia to Poland. Kaunitz anticipated that the Prussians might not accept such massive territorial gains by Austria and Russia without some gains of their own, which would inevitably have to come at Poland's expense. Kaunitz suggested that one way to deal with this would be to give Poland the Danubian Principalities as compensation for their losses to Prussia, which would also maintain the buffer between Austrian and Russian territory. It would have looked rather silly on a map, but Poland would extend from the Baltic to the Black Sea once more.
Well, not sure about Walachia but there was a precedens of Moldavia being polish vassal...
Wallachia was very briefly in vassalage to Poland during the early 17th century.
So here's an interesting plan from 1949 for dissolving the Soviet Union:
commons.wikimedia.org
File:Chuprynka plan.png - Wikimedia Commons
So here's an interesting plan from 1949 for dissolving the Soviet Union:
View attachment 571364File:Chuprynka plan.png - Wikimedia Commons
View attachment 571367
Are there even enough Cossacks to form a majority in that area?
