Proposals and War Aims That Didn't Happen Map Thread

athgtq16129

ST15RM said:
the wikipedia article on the geacps mentions it.
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Well yeah, but it is Wikipedia we're talking about, we should be talking about the sources rather than the article itself, and also, the mention of that Government-General of Central America was removed from the page.

The Wiki page still mentions Japan planning to conquer Central America and the Caribbean in pages 62-65 of Weinberg's book, anyone here who has that book can verify this? even more weirder to believe that Japan would directly control these areas, rather than client states, after all it would make sense for them to want influence around these areas if they planned to own the Panama Canal, but all these places literally becoming Japanese territories?

Should Japan annex California with its large Japanese minority and strategic position in the Pacific? nah, make it a puppet state - but Colombia, Ecuador, Central America, Cuba, Haiti, the Dominican Republic, the Bahamas, and Jamaica? they should all be Japanese prefectures for the Yamato race, I also remember reading a few years ago something similar to "Guyana, Suriname, French Guyana, and the Antilles would be open for negotiation between Germany and Japan after the war" lmao.
 
James the AH Fan

James the AH Fan

The ethno-linguistic proposal for China, now in Worlda format!
Ethno-Linguistic China.png
 
Iron_Lord

Iron_Lord

Aha! Russian Conquest of the Balkans, During the Napoleonic Wars. There was plans for a United March With Alexander the I and Napoleon to March on Constantinople. Could anyone make a map?
 

xsampa

Banned
athgtq16129 said:
Well yeah, but it is Wikipedia we're talking about, we should be talking about the sources rather than the article itself, and also, the mention of that Government-General of Central America was removed from the page.

The Wiki page still mentions Japan planning to conquer Central America and the Caribbean in pages 62-65 of Weinberg's book, anyone here who has that book can verify this? even more weirder to believe that Japan would directly control these areas, rather than client states, after all it would make sense for them to want influence around these areas if they planned to own the Panama Canal, but all these places literally becoming Japanese territories?

Should Japan annex California with its large Japanese minority and strategic position in the Pacific? nah, make it a puppet state - but Colombia, Ecuador, Central America, Cuba, Haiti, the Dominican Republic, the Bahamas, and Jamaica? they should all be Japanese prefectures for the Yamato race, I also remember reading a few years ago something similar to "Guyana, Suriname, French Guyana, and the Antilles would be open for negotiation between Germany and Japan after the war" lmao.
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It makes more sense for them to be clients because it would support “Liberation from European/white control”
 

Chris S

athgtq16129 said:
Well yeah, but it is Wikipedia we're talking about, we should be talking about the sources rather than the article itself, and also, the mention of that Government-General of Central America was removed from the page.

The Wiki page still mentions Japan planning to conquer Central America and the Caribbean in pages 62-65 of Weinberg's book, anyone here who has that book can verify this? even more weirder to believe that Japan would directly control these areas, rather than client states, after all it would make sense for them to want influence around these areas if they planned to own the Panama Canal, but all these places literally becoming Japanese territories?

Should Japan annex California with its large Japanese minority and strategic position in the Pacific? nah, make it a puppet state - but Colombia, Ecuador, Central America, Cuba, Haiti, the Dominican Republic, the Bahamas, and Jamaica? they should all be Japanese prefectures for the Yamato race, I also remember reading a few years ago something similar to "Guyana, Suriname, French Guyana, and the Antilles would be open for negotiation between Germany and Japan after the war" lmao.
Click to expand...

I have that book and that is what that map I did is originally based off of. Weinberg book directly mentions the Government-General of Central America on pages 64-65 and states that it was to include "Guatemala, San Salvador, Honduras, British Honduras, Nicaragua, Costa Rica, Panama, Colombia, the Maracaibo (western) portion of Venezuela, Ecuador, Cuba, Haiti, Dominica*, Jamaica, and the Bahamas. The future of Trinidad, British and Dutch Guiana, and the British and French possessions in the Leeward Islands were left open for negotiations with the Germans after the war. Furthermore, if Mexico, Peru, and/or Chile entered the war against Japan, substantial parts of those states were also to be ceded to Japan."

*I assumed that "Dominica" is actually referring to the Dominican Republic as that is a common mistake.

Weinberg mentions this from the "Land Disposal Plan in the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere" and in a note to this (the note being found on page 243) says that the full document is published in Appendix II in The Double Patriots: A Study of Japanese Nationalism by Richard Storry (1957).

As to why that mention was dropped from wikipedia, looking back one can see where a user named "Rjensen" removed in on September 15, 2018 because that bit had been uncited since 2015. However looking at older versions of the article I suspect that bit was noted as "unsourced" because the previous bit about the Alaska Government-General had some additional information to the Weinberg reference (which was the general reference for all of the listed intended territories) and this additional information (concerning turning the American West Coast of California and Oregon into a semi-autonomous satellite state) is given a citation. This probably led some other random user (in 2015) to assume that the information on Central America was unsourced.
 

Analytical Engine

Neoteros said:
Yeah but, why the Irish, out of everyone else? It's like they woke up one day, looked to their west and were like, "okay, fuck them in particular".
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The Irish were considered to be "barbarians", for having the temerity of retaining their Celtic culture, as opposed to the "civilised" Roman-derived culture of the rest of Europe. Also, they were accused of being the "wrong sort" of Christian.

The former King of Leinster made the mistake of hiring Norman mercenaries to help him retake his throne, which had the backing of Henry II and Pope Adrian IV. Henry used the "well, since we're over here anyway" excuse to try and conquer the whole of Ireland.

EDIT: Besides, the Irish weren't totally singled out. Norman (and subsequently Plantagenet) England treated Wales like a colony as well.
 
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Skallagrim

Skallagrim

Banned
Neoteros said:
That's fucking terrifying.

Why did England have such an anti-Irish streak throughout history, though? I mean, it actually predates the birth of Anglicanism, so there must be another reason...
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Analytical Engine said:
The word you are looking for is "racism".
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Neoteros said:
Yeah but, why the Irish, out of everyone else? It's like they woke up one day, looked to their west and were like, "okay, fuck them in particular".
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The racism actually came later, for the most part. This doesn't predate Anglicanism, and this is mostly about religious bigotry. This particular bit of anti-Catholic horror came from the desk of Puritan dictator Oliver Cromwell. The later batshit ethnicist "theory" of anti-Irish racism was the insane eugenicist bastard child of long-standing cultural bigotry.

In a broader context, @Analytical Engine has already outlined the history of that cultural bigotry. And yes, it was anti-Welsh, too. And anti-Scottish. (Regarding Wales, keep in mind that this name derives from a Germanic word meaning "foreigner" or "stranger". Wallonia and Wallachia got their names the same way. It means "not us". It means "out-group". Kind of sets the tone, wouldn't you say?)
 

xsampa

Banned
Chris S said:
I have that book and that is what that map I did is originally based off of. Weinberg book directly mentions the Government-General of Central America on pages 64-65 and states that it was to include "Guatemala, San Salvador, Honduras, British Honduras, Nicaragua, Costa Rica, Panama, Colombia, the Maracaibo (western) portion of Venezuela, Ecuador, Cuba, Haiti, Dominica*, Jamaica, and the Bahamas. The future of Trinidad, British and Dutch Guiana, and the British and French possessions in the Leeward Islands were left open for negotiations with the Germans after the war. Furthermore, if Mexico, Peru, and/or Chile entered the war against Japan, substantial parts of those states were also to be ceded to Japan."

*I assumed that "Dominica" is actually referring to the Dominican Republic as that is a common mistake.

Weinberg mentions this from the "Land Disposal Plan in the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere" and in a note to this (the note being found on page 243) says that the full document is published in Appendix II in The Double Patriots: A Study of Japanese Nationalism by Richard Storry (1957).

As to why that mention was dropped from wikipedia, looking back one can see where a user named "Rjensen" removed in on September 15, 2018 because that bit had been uncited since 2015. However looking at older versions of the article I suspect that bit was noted as "unsourced" because the previous bit about the Alaska Government-General had some additional information to the Weinberg reference (which was the general reference for all of the listed intended territories) and this additional information (concerning turning the American West Coast of California and Oregon into a semi-autonomous satellite state) is given a citation. This probably led some other random user (in 2015) to assume that the information on Central America was unsourced.
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Did the Japanese expect to turn Peru, Mexico and Chile into puppet states?
 
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