Makes a lot of sense.
Of course, all of this is assuming that the already declining empire could sustain control over all this land.
Proposals and War Aims That Didn't Happen Map Thread
- Thread starter Beedok
- Start date
Of course, all of this is assuming that the already declining empire could sustain control over all this land.
Trialism was a proposal to turn the Austro-Hungarian Empire from bipartite to tripartite, where the slavs would have their own state on equal footing with the Germans and Hungarians. Franz Ferdinand promoted the idea as a way to end slavic dissent in the empire. Serbians saw this as a threat to their dream of a united Slavic state and the Hungarians saw it as a way to liberate many of the minorities within their territory.
Do you have a source for this? I figured a division like this, if it were a real proposal, would have kept Syrmia with the united South Slavic state....
https://encyclopedia.1914-1918-online.net/article/trialism
https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/4k2o8m/trialist_proposals_for_austriahungarycroatia_from/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trialism_in_Austria-Hungary
It's entirely possible it would, as there were many different proposed divisions. Although, given how against the idea the Hungarians were, it's really up in the air.
The Inquiry's idea for Polish Borders.
Source: https://archive.org/stream/MyDiaryA...ryAtConferenceOfParis-Vol4#page/n239/mode/2up and the relevant pages + a different version of that map: https://imgur.com/a/9cExCeZ
Taken from a Treaty of Versailles discussion on a Polish history forum (http://www.historycy.org/index.php?showtopic=68797&st=270)
Source: https://archive.org/stream/MyDiaryA...ryAtConferenceOfParis-Vol4#page/n239/mode/2up and the relevant pages + a different version of that map: https://imgur.com/a/9cExCeZ
Taken from a Treaty of Versailles discussion on a Polish history forum (http://www.historycy.org/index.php?showtopic=68797&st=270)
Interesting ideas all around. I could see something alone the lines of one of these happening had Franz Ferdinand not been assassinated, although I tend to think that the portion remaining Austrian (and Bohemian) would have ended up as part of Germany and Hungary (with Galicia?), and the southern Slav state (Croatia? Illyria?) becoming independent monarchies in the German orbit. Or, he Union might hold. Either possibility is interesting.
Wasn´t in this thread that map showing possible split of Austria between FF and Wilhelm? With Austria going to Germany and reborn Poland under second FFs son?
Yep, Alain Peyrefitte was the main proponent of it and wrote a book about it where he outlined 6 various "hypothesis"
Here are the first two (if you have trouble reading it, the main difference between the two being in the ownership of the Annaba/Bone enclave and the south of the Oran enclave)
This looks like the third (despite what the title says)
Here's a personal interpretation of the fourth hypothesis, similar to the third except with the tiaret departement as a "solid" corridor to the sahara instead of a thin one around the oil pipelines
'Autonomous territory of Tlemcen" , "French province of the regions of Alger and Oran", "Autonomous republic of the region of constantine"
I'm not sure but this could be the Fifth hypothesis, whose main difference with the 6th being that the Tlemcen is independant (in name at least) and the Saida region is part of the French sahara instead of the French Algeria.
From reading a bit about it it seems he disliked the first to proposal as for him having a territorial integrity was necessary, and only saw those as a temporary compromise while the pieds noirs could be evacuated, and he generally prefered the third and fourth hypothesis.
The red parts of 01, 05, 07 and 09 look like a solid base for a pied noir state. No need for TiaretYep, Alain Peyrefitte was the main proponent of it and wrote a book about it where he outlined 6 various "hypothesis"
Here are the first two (if you have trouble reading it, the main difference between the two being in the ownership of the Annaba/Bone enclave and the south of the Oran enclave)
This looks like the third (despite what the title says)
Here's a personal interpretation of the fourth hypothesis, similar to the third except with the tiaret departement as a "solid" corridor to the sahara instead of a thin one around the oil pipelines
'Autonomous territory of Tlemcen" , "French province of the regions of Alger and Oran", "Autonomous republic of the region of constantine"
I'm not sure but this could be the Fifth hypothesis, whose main difference with the 6th being that the Tlemcen is independant (in name at least) and the Saida region is part of the French sahara instead of the French Algeria.
From reading a bit about it it seems he disliked the first to proposal as for him having a territorial integrity was necessary, and only saw those as a temporary compromise while the pieds noirs could be evacuated, and he generally prefered the third and fourth hypothesis.
Peyreffite advised for it because there were “only” 270,000 additional Algerians in Tiaretc, which would translate into less than 200k additional after some uh, forced population movement he was planning, apparently quoting from his book the tiaret region was a “good” (read few FLN activities) département.
No map, but I came across some of the early goals Japan had in the Second Sino-Japanese War, or at least those they communicated through peace terms in January of 1938.
- Repudiation of Commuism. This will include either the denunciation or the complete sterilization of the Sino-Russian non-aggression pact.
- Economic cooperation. This would include the establishment of joint aviation services and concessions for certain railroads in North China.
- Acknowledgment of China's financial liability for the cost of the war. As China is unable to pay a war indemnity, this means the concession of security in the form of rights and interests.
- Recognition of Manchukuo. This may take the form of commercial and communications treaties.
- The appointment of Japanese advisers.
"....While China could have had several years of peace to prepare for stiffer resistance at the price of only Hopeh and Chahar last July, to obtain peace now she must admit virtual Japanese suzerainty over Hopeh, Chahar, Suiyuan, Shansi, Shantung, Kiangsu and parts of Honan, Anhwei and Chekiang Provinces....."
I'd assume then that much if not all this territory would have ultimately end up assigned to the Peiping Government under a draft peace treaty.
Crazy Boris
Banned
I found this when doing some research on the Georgian Civil War; this appears to be a map of the Confederation of Mountain Peoples of the Caucasus' claimed borders. I have no idea if this map is accurate or not but I thought it was interesting enough to share.
- from my Russian friend
What's with the exclusion of Ingushetia?
Even without mentioned provinces and with Japanese influence, China was still big country with even bigger manpower, would be ever Japanese able to prevent this? What was/ould be their policy concering warlords?
That was a quote directly from the source, not my own opinion; the Chinese military up to that point was largely a paper tiger that acted as if it were being used against the rain, dissolving as it went. It would not be for another couple of weeks before the Kuomintang managed to put up real, effective resistance to the Japanese and winning notable military victories.
As for what the ultimate plan was vis a vis China, I really don't know. There were advocates for just about every method, though the winning one historically seems to have been a unified China made up of autonomous regions; Mengjiang for example was to be reintegrated into a new Chinese government.
As for what the ultimate plan was vis a vis China, I really don't know. There were advocates for just about every method, though the winning one historically seems to have been a unified China made up of autonomous regions; Mengjiang for example was to be reintegrated into a new Chinese government.
I'm not entirely certain, but I think it'd be included since afaik Ichkeria claimed it
