Proposals and War Aims That Didn't Happen Map Thread

Wendell

Sharklord1 said:
I see. They may not have a choice. The swiss may be neutral, but are not completely immune to international pressure. They'd probably be forced to take the territory anyways, since France would still ultimately have a border with Germany, rendering the buffer less effective. Though realistically, the Swiss would give the whole territory up regardless.

Also even if it was just Alsace, the effects would still likely be present. Giving neutral nations territory outside their sphere essentially removes them as neutrals. Though if there was war on either side, the Swiss would probably seek peace rather than fight for a territory they never properly asked for. Realistically.
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Did anyone tell Denmark this in 1919?
 
James the AH Fan

James the AH Fan

Territories of the collaborationist Armenian, Georgian, and Azerbaijani "Liberation Committees" during the Axis invasion of the USSR, as delineated through (albeit "heated") inter-group dialogue and promises made by Alfred Rosenberg:
Caucasus Liberation Fronts WWII.png
 

Aichi72

James the AH Fan

James the AH Fan

Aichi72 said:
Is that Armenian Cilicia? Would that Armenian state even be majority Armenian? (Though given that its the Nazis, I suppose that they imagined that it wouldn't remain non-Armenian for long.)
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Yeah, Rosenberg promised Cilicia to Armenia in the event of an invasion of Turkey, though by 1941 the region was like >95% Turkish
 
DUWANG

DUWANG

James the AH Fan said:
Yeah, Rosenberg promised Cilicia to Armenia in the event of an invasion of Turkey, though by 1941 the region was like >95% Turkish
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"lol" said the scorpion, "lmao".
-The Nazis after informing that the majority of the people in your region of interest don't match your intended demographic
 

Iserlohn

LucavonEvil said:
Sorry to bother but does anyone have a Bakker Schut Plan in a qbam format?
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No, but I quickly made by best approximation of it here.

Bakker-Schut.png


A bit of an explanation: the light orange area that isn't the same color as the Dutch core is Plan A only, the light red area is Plan A & B, while the purple and grey areas are Plan A to C. Well, except for the southern grey area, that was A and B only.

That's because the grey areas are part of the 1947 proposal for annexations, made after Bakker Schut got shot down hard. It consists/is based on the Niedergrafschaft section of Grafschaft Bentheim, the island of Borkum, and the areas around the cities of Ahaus, Erkelenz, Geilenkirchen, Heinsberg, Kleve, and Rees. The red dot stands for the town of Selfkant, which the Dutch actually annexed and kept until 1963.

Side note: For the record, I used a late 2023 map that had the German Kreise on it as reference, combined with glances at municipal maps of them and the list over on Wikipedia of the Bakker-Schut-Plan. Because apparently nobody has before-and-after maps of the German Kreise after the Kreisreform wave of the late 60s to mid 70s. And of course nobody did a QBAM with German Kreise for before 1970 because that would be impossible, given how tiny they used to be. So it's probably not the most accurate, but, again, best attempt.​
 
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TheEmperorYT

TheEmperorYT

"Great Britain’s difficulties were not solved by the large American loan made in 1946. Indeed, Russell saw little hope for England’s economic future. With the prospective loss of empire, England was a declining nation according to Russell because, as he put it, “Britain’s industrial system is not equipped for the modern age.” With these ideas in mind, Russell shocked many Americans in March 1947 when he suggested that England, Scotland, Wales, and Ireland should be invited to become American states. He even thought that Canada and Australia also might want to make similar arrangements. Russell told startled listeners that such a political union would create freer world trade and reduce economic competition. Moreover, the resulting political combination would provide a navy of unrivaled power. To some extent, no doubt, his idea of incorporating Great Britain into the United States was encouraged by his reverence for Anglo-Saxon culture and the desire to keep it strong. Although some critics gave Russell credit for being sincere, his proposal gained no support either at home or in England. Reaction varied from the charge that he did not know what he was talking about to the comment that he must be joking."
– Fite, Gilbert C. (1991) Richard B. Russell Jr., Senator from Georgia. University of North Carolina Press, p. 217
 

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oshron

oshron

TheEmperorYT said:
"Great Britain’s difficulties were not solved by the large American loan made in 1946. Indeed, Russell saw little hope for England’s economic future. With the prospective loss of empire, England was a declining nation according to Russell because, as he put it, “Britain’s industrial system is not equipped for the modern age.” With these ideas in mind, Russell shocked many Americans in March 1947 when he suggested that England, Scotland, Wales, and Ireland should be invited to become American states. He even thought that Canada and Australia also might want to make similar arrangements. Russell told startled listeners that such a political union would create freer world trade and reduce economic competition. Moreover, the resulting political combination would provide a navy of unrivaled power. To some extent, no doubt, his idea of incorporating Great Britain into the United States was encouraged by his reverence for Anglo-Saxon culture and the desire to keep it strong. Although some critics gave Russell credit for being sincere, his proposal gained no support either at home or in England. Reaction varied from the charge that he did not know what he was talking about to the comment that he must be joking."
– Fite, Gilbert C. (1991) Richard B. Russell Jr., Senator from Georgia. University of North Carolina Press, p. 217
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do you want Oceania? because that's how you get Oceania.
 

PaulJones202718

TheEmperorYT said:
"Great Britain’s difficulties were not solved by the large American loan made in 1946. Indeed, Russell saw little hope for England’s economic future. With the prospective loss of empire, England was a declining nation according to Russell because, as he put it, “Britain’s industrial system is not equipped for the modern age.” With these ideas in mind, Russell shocked many Americans in March 1947 when he suggested that England, Scotland, Wales, and Ireland should be invited to become American states. He even thought that Canada and Australia also might want to make similar arrangements. Russell told startled listeners that such a political union would create freer world trade and reduce economic competition. Moreover, the resulting political combination would provide a navy of unrivaled power. To some extent, no doubt, his idea of incorporating Great Britain into the United States was encouraged by his reverence for Anglo-Saxon culture and the desire to keep it strong. Although some critics gave Russell credit for being sincere, his proposal gained no support either at home or in England. Reaction varied from the charge that he did not know what he was talking about to the comment that he must be joking."
– Fite, Gilbert C. (1991) Richard B. Russell Jr., Senator from Georgia. University of North Carolina Press, p. 217
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You forgot New Zealand.
 

Cholima

Now this aren't specific proposals but im fairly sure this belongs here, and by this I mean the territorial ambitions of slavic nation states circa 1915-1921 based on the maps posted here, as well as some other stuff I managed to find (excluding Belarus becaus from what i could find they had only 1 proposal they stuck to and russia because her goals were strategic/imperial, not nationalistic i nature)
1717956201829.png

1717956289480.png

1717956324275.png

1717956405730.png

1717956452969.png
 

Kaiser of France

TheEmperorYT said:
"Great Britain’s difficulties were not solved by the large American loan made in 1946. Indeed, Russell saw little hope for England’s economic future. With the prospective loss of empire, England was a declining nation according to Russell because, as he put it, “Britain’s industrial system is not equipped for the modern age.” With these ideas in mind, Russell shocked many Americans in March 1947 when he suggested that England, Scotland, Wales, and Ireland should be invited to become American states. He even thought that Canada and Australia also might want to make similar arrangements. Russell told startled listeners that such a political union would create freer world trade and reduce economic competition. Moreover, the resulting political combination would provide a navy of unrivaled power. To some extent, no doubt, his idea of incorporating Great Britain into the United States was encouraged by his reverence for Anglo-Saxon culture and the desire to keep it strong. Although some critics gave Russell credit for being sincere, his proposal gained no support either at home or in England. Reaction varied from the charge that he did not know what he was talking about to the comment that he must be joking."
– Fite, Gilbert C. (1991) Richard B. Russell Jr., Senator from Georgia. University of North Carolina Press, p. 217
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Ngl Senator Russel is cooking here.

I'd also like to bring up how James Burnham advocated a similar concept around the same time in his book 'The Struggle for the World'.
 
TheTexasRanger

TheTexasRanger

TheEmperorYT said:
"Great Britain’s difficulties were not solved by the large American loan made in 1946. Indeed, Russell saw little hope for England’s economic future. With the prospective loss of empire, England was a declining nation according to Russell because, as he put it, “Britain’s industrial system is not equipped for the modern age.” With these ideas in mind, Russell shocked many Americans in March 1947 when he suggested that England, Scotland, Wales, and Ireland should be invited to become American states. He even thought that Canada and Australia also might want to make similar arrangements. Russell told startled listeners that such a political union would create freer world trade and reduce economic competition. Moreover, the resulting political combination would provide a navy of unrivaled power. To some extent, no doubt, his idea of incorporating Great Britain into the United States was encouraged by his reverence for Anglo-Saxon culture and the desire to keep it strong. Although some critics gave Russell credit for being sincere, his proposal gained no support either at home or in England. Reaction varied from the charge that he did not know what he was talking about to the comment that he must be joking."
– Fite, Gilbert C. (1991) Richard B. Russell Jr., Senator from Georgia. University of North Carolina Press, p. 217
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While I'm not sure how serious this idea was, I'm wondering what the opposition within the states would've been like since those states would've most definitely not be in favor of segregation so if Russel was semi-serious about this it's surprising considering his politics. Or did he think with how pasty-white these states would be that it would balance things out in a sense.
 
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