Proposals and War Aims That Didn't Happen Map Thread

Speaking of Napoleon III, this may have been mentioned before, but I think at one point he proposed an Arab Kingdom in what is now Algeria
At least outside the French Coast, so it could keep the hinterland calm for the French without to much own investment (or troops) into it unlike OTL.
 
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The Second Mexican Empire under Maximilian I.

"Napoleon's clandestine program of conquest—the so-called Grand Design for the Americas—depended on his intervening in the American war while establishing a foothold in Mexico. He intended to block both Union and Confederate expansion southward by constructing a North American balance of power based on a 'hyphenated confederation' similar to that in Germany. The confederation would consist of the North, the South, the West, and Mexico, each having equal power. The plan would thus break up the United States, leaving Mexico under French control to eventually incorporate Texas and perhaps the former colony of Louisiana. It was an ambitious and provocative plan, but neither the Confederacy nor the Union could have been surprised. In Richmond, Benjamin had long suspected the emperor of wanting Texas in order to contain southern expansion. From Belgium the year before, Ambrose D. Mann had warned of Napoleon's threat, and again in early 1863 he expressed concern that the emperor's territorial aims would cause 'general uneasiness in the minds of our citizens'; his chief goal was 'the restoration of Mexico as it was prior to the independence of Texas.'"

- Jones, Howard (2010) Blue and Gray Diplomacy: A History of Union and Confederate Foreign Relations. University of North Carolina Press, p. 294

"In the fall of 1864, Maximilian sent his aide. Count Ollivier Resseguier, on a secret mission to Guatemala to explore the possibility of drawing Central America into the Mexican Empire. The energetic French minister, Cabarrus, advised the aide it would be necessary, first of all, for Mexico to conclude a frontier convention to soften the distrust of Guatemalans over their boundary dispute with Mexico. After this gesture of good will, but not before, Maximilian’s agents could plot out with the French further enticement of Guatemala. The Frenchman believed Carrera might be able to unite and annex all Central America to the Mexican Empire."

- Hanna, Alfred Jackson and Hanna, Kathryn Abbey (1971) Napoleon III and Mexico: American Triumph over Monarchy. University of North Carolina Press, pp. 188-89

"And sometimes their schemes shaded off into pure fantasy, as when Maximilian, precariously ruling in Mexico City, toyed with a plan—it was born in Paris and it was the finest flower of the seed sown in the prison cell at Ham—to extend the Mexican Empire over Nicaragua, and Panama, and all Central America. And when these regions had been consolidated there was to be an alliance with the Emperor of Brazil and a conquest of Colombia, Venezuela, Guiana, Ecuador and Peru. He drew a map, and coloured in the full eventual limits of his power."

- Dawson, Daniel (1935) The Mexican Adventure. G. Bell & Sons Ltd., p. 381
Wow, I never though there were plans of expansion under Max/Napoleon (aside of alliance - and later maybe personal union? - with Brazil... and possibly some french ambitions in Ecuador and Patagonia? I wonder if Spanish ambitions somehow fits into this schemes? - there was re-establishment of Spanish rule over Dominican republic and, shortly after, war of Spain with Chile and Peru over Chincha islands)
 
The Second Mexican Empire under Maximilian I.

"Napoleon's clandestine program of conquest—the so-called Grand Design for the Americas—depended on his intervening in the American war while establishing a foothold in Mexico. He intended to block both Union and Confederate expansion southward by constructing a North American balance of power based on a 'hyphenated confederation' similar to that in Germany. The confederation would consist of the North, the South, the West, and Mexico, each having equal power. The plan would thus break up the United States, leaving Mexico under French control to eventually incorporate Texas and perhaps the former colony of Louisiana. It was an ambitious and provocative plan, but neither the Confederacy nor the Union could have been surprised. In Richmond, Benjamin had long suspected the emperor of wanting Texas in order to contain southern expansion. From Belgium the year before, Ambrose D. Mann had warned of Napoleon's threat, and again in early 1863 he expressed concern that the emperor's territorial aims would cause 'general uneasiness in the minds of our citizens'; his chief goal was 'the restoration of Mexico as it was prior to the independence of Texas.'"

- Jones, Howard (2010) Blue and Gray Diplomacy: A History of Union and Confederate Foreign Relations. University of North Carolina Press, p. 294

"In the fall of 1864, Maximilian sent his aide. Count Ollivier Resseguier, on a secret mission to Guatemala to explore the possibility of drawing Central America into the Mexican Empire. The energetic French minister, Cabarrus, advised the aide it would be necessary, first of all, for Mexico to conclude a frontier convention to soften the distrust of Guatemalans over their boundary dispute with Mexico. After this gesture of good will, but not before, Maximilian’s agents could plot out with the French further enticement of Guatemala. The Frenchman believed Carrera might be able to unite and annex all Central America to the Mexican Empire."

- Hanna, Alfred Jackson and Hanna, Kathryn Abbey (1971) Napoleon III and Mexico: American Triumph over Monarchy. University of North Carolina Press, pp. 188-89

"And sometimes their schemes shaded off into pure fantasy, as when Maximilian, precariously ruling in Mexico City, toyed with a plan—it was born in Paris and it was the finest flower of the seed sown in the prison cell at Ham—to extend the Mexican Empire over Nicaragua, and Panama, and all Central America. And when these regions had been consolidated there was to be an alliance with the Emperor of Brazil and a conquest of Colombia, Venezuela, Guiana, Ecuador and Peru. He drew a map, and coloured in the full eventual limits of his power."

- Dawson, Daniel (1935) The Mexican Adventure. G. Bell & Sons Ltd., p. 381
This is extremely interesting to me, as I was aware that Napoleon III had some ambitions in the New World but I didn't know much in terms of specifics. I do have to wonder how he envisioned a 'hyphenated confederation' working between the U.S. and Confederates though. Is there any more information on this part of his plans specifically?
 
Does anyone have the border of the British New Ireland colony in Maine? The only one I could find is from 2018 and it’s not accurate to any of the maps I’ve used.
 
Does anyone have the border of the British New Ireland colony in Maine? The only one I could find is from 2018 and it’s not accurate to any of the maps I’ve used.
IIRC, the border proposed to the west was the Penobscot River. I assume the northern frontier would be the highlands (St. Lawrence basin I believe) or a new line -- it's indefinite. The easternmost boundary is probably bounded by Passamaquoddy Bay & along the St. Croix agreed by the 1798 commissioners.
 
IIRC, the border proposed to the west was the Penobscot River. I assume the northern frontier would be the highlands (St. Lawrence basin I believe) or a new line -- it's indefinite. The easternmost boundary is probably bounded by Passamaquoddy Bay & along the St. Croix agreed by the 1798 commissioners.
You are correct on the Penobscot being the Western bound, unfortunately I cannot offer anything definite on its eastern or northern bounds.
 
The wiki page for the republic of Texas says this

“The Congress of the Republic of Texas even passed a resolution over Houston's veto, claiming The Californias for Texas.”

The citation given is “Fehrenbach, T. R. (2000), Lone Star: a history of Texas and the Texans” with a Google Books link but the link doesn’t work

So does anyone have any info on these Texan claims on California, and how New Mexico may fit into this?

Probably the Mexican/Spanish definition.

 
Also I just realized I forgot to specify that I wanted a QBAM of New Ireland (or technically the Penobscot border) because the one from 2018 on this thread doesn’t overlap with the maps I’ve been using. My mistake.
 
Hi everyone, was wondering if there's any project or plan from Charlemagne or the carolingians in general about the expansion and conservation of the frankish empire (Iberia, Italy, saxons...) ?
 
Hi everyone, was wondering if there's any project or plan from Charlemagne or the carolingians in general about the expansion and conservation of the frankish empire (Iberia, Italy, saxons...) ?
Perhaps not exactly what you're looking for, but the Ottonians were very ambitious in their goal of restoring the Roman Empire as a more centralized, bureaucratic administration. Otto II launched multiple wars into Italy to secure it from the Islamic States/Eastern Romans, and even sought to place his own puppet-ruler on the throne of France. Otto III was perhaps even more idealistic in his goals of establishing *Roman* supremacy over Germany, France, and all of Italy, and was active in giving patronage to Catholic rulers across Europe (an example of the Roman principle of universal governance). Had either achieved their goals of building a more centralized power structure over France, Germany, and Italy (with its influence extending into Spain, England, and Eastern Europe), history might recognize the *HRE* as it saw itself; the actual continuation of the Western Roman Empire.
 
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From Horne, the fall of Paris:

France was to lose all Alsace, and most of Lorraine, two of her fairest and most valuable provinces, including the bastion cities of Metz and Strasbourg. By hard negotiating and appealing to the greed for glory of the Prussian military, Thiers had managed to save the city of Belfort (which, despite a long siege, had never capitulated) in return for subjecting Paris to the shame of a triumphal march by the conqueror.
This implies the initial Prussian demand for Alsace-Lorraine extended somewhat further West, though I haven't been able to trace back the origin of this fact.
 
From Horne, the fall of Paris:


This implies the initial Prussian demand for Alsace-Lorraine extended somewhat further West, though I haven't been able to trace back the origin of this fact.
I found this on a website about the history of Belfort https://frenchmoments.eu/belfort-history/#t-1700413529194

A difficult negotiation​

Thiers and Bismarck had difficulty negotiating the drawing up of the Frankfurt Treaty. Letting the heroic city of Belfort become Prussian hurt the French patriotism of many Republicans. The Prussian state officers were pleased with France’s proposal to exchange twelve iron-rich Lorraine villages for Belfort and 105 communes of the Haut-Rhin. As soon as it was announced, the Prussians accepted the idea. The French National Assemblyconfirmed it later.

Metz and the département of Moselle were thus given to the Prussians in exchange for Belfort and its Alsatian-part district. The detached part of the Haut-Rhin, which remained French, was not immediately called “Territoire de Belfort” (Belfort Territory) but rather “French District of the Haut-Rhin”. It was only in 1922 that the Belfort Territory – “the temporary entity waiting for the return of the Haut-Rhin to France” – became an official département as such.

Despite the Haut-Rhin being returned to republican France in 1918, the French authorities were not keen to have the territory returned to the département as constituted in 1789. From then on, Belfort and its environment were no longer considered part of Alsace.
This says that some kind of trade took place for the city plus some territories in the Haut-Rhin in exchange for some territories around Metz that would be given to Germany. Not sure exactly what the dimensions of these territories were but it is interesting nontheless.
 
"Quite a few pre-1948 Zionist proposals, and a few British ones too, have a Jewish state that stretches all the way up to the Litani river in South Lebanon. These maps are also from Flapan’s The Birth of Israel."

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F_P0by6XgAA70cA


Never heard of the last one, somehow.
 
"Quite a few pre-1948 Zionist proposals, and a few British ones too, have a Jewish state that stretches all the way up to the Litani river in South Lebanon. These maps are also from Flapan’s The Birth of Israel."

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F_P0by6XgAA70cA


Never heard of the last one, somehow.
Haven't heard of the first one and at glancing over I simply assumed it is just Galilee as a Jewish State first, which did get me going wait a minute that's the only Druze and Christian dominated region that doesn't make any sense, before realizing that was no border but just a railway line XD
 
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