Proposals and War Aims That Didn't Happen Map Thread

It's pretty odd that Kaliningrad/Königsberg became part of Russia. I know why it was done (not that I agree with it) -- removing the supposed threat of "Prussian Militarism" and whatever -- but it's still odd that it became part of Russia.

Was there ever a proposal that Kaliningrad become part of Poland? Or, if it had to be part of the USSR, why wasn't it part of Lithuania?

Yes, but accounts vary:

"Originally, Germany was to retain Stettin, and the Poles were to annex East Prussia with Königsberg.[31] Eventually, however, Stalin decided that he wanted Königsberg as a year-round warm water port for the Soviet Navy and argued that the Poles should receive Stettin instead. "

"Some historians speculate that it may have originally been offered to the Lithuanian SSR because the resolution from the conference specifies that Kaliningrad's border would be at the (pre-war) Lithuanian frontier. "
 
Here's a Medieval one: the Tripartite Indenture
During the 1400s Welsh Rebellion, the Welsh leader Owain Glyndŵr, along with his two English allies, agreed on dividing the Kingdom of England was Henry IV to be deposed by them.
Wales was to be fully united and annex some of the Marches along its borders, while the rest of England was to be divided between a resurrected independent Northumbria and, well, England.
The rebellion was put down by the English monarch, but it left us this interesant proposal

View attachment 863291


QBAM Version of that map:
View attachment 863293
Heh, its nice to see my old map finally make its way back to the forum, and this thread, via somebody else!
 
Is there a good QBAM for the war aims in the First Balkan War? There’s this one by Xasper H. but it’s not really accurate unfortunately.

treatylondon1913-png.813178
 
Here's a Medieval one: the Tripartite Indenture
During the 1400s Welsh Rebellion, the Welsh leader Owain Glyndŵr, along with his two English allies, agreed on dividing the Kingdom of England was Henry IV to be deposed by them.
Wales was to be fully united and annex some of the Marches along its borders, while the rest of England was to be divided between a resurrected independent Northumbria and, well, England.
The rebellion was put down by the English monarch, but it left us this interesant proposal

View attachment 863291


QBAM Version of that map:
View attachment 863293
Wonder how the linguistic situation would develop with a permanently divided England. Especially the situation of Scots and the English dialects in now Wales.
 
Wonder how the linguistic situation would develop with a permanently divided England. Especially the situation of Scots and the English dialects in now Wales.
By that time, Welsh was still spoken by a majority of the population of modern-day Wales, with a small minority in the marches, so I would assume that if the borders remained stable, Welsh would become the day-to-day language of the whole area.
 
Wonder how the linguistic situation would develop with a permanently divided England. Especially the situation of Scots and the English dialects in now Wales.
I believe Scots and Northumbrian English hadn't properly diverged at the time. I suspect Northumbrian English would be closer to Scots in TTL.

English would probably still be spoken in the areas bordering Wales - don't forget, there were Welsh-speaking communities in that area as well.
 
Map of the Pacific Republic, a hypothetical state born from the secession of the West Coast of the United States conceived before and during the American Civil War.
 

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Hello, so I got another interesting proposal that was never implemented, and one I talked before in the past. In the 19th Century, as we know the idea of German Unification was divided between the ideas of Kleindeutschland and Großdeutschland, or whether Austria should be allowed to join a Unified Germany. This is because, if Austria did join, they would have to divide its empire.

Well, there was one proposal by Prince Felix of Schwarzenberg, the Prime Minister of the Austrian Empire, proposed this idea: Why not integrate all of the Austrian Empire, including its non-German lands, in a newer German Confederation

Thus was the idea of Großösterreich, also known as Greater Austria, Seventy Million Reich or, the Schwarzenberg Plan

View attachment 862767
(Map belongs to @Crazy Boris)
View attachment 862766
(Map used as a reference)

Now, let's be honest here: As cool as an Alternate History concept this was... It was impossible to implement. No one would accept this idea. Not the German princes, not the non-German people in Austria, and certainly not foreign nations. It's to the point that it was either a genuine offer or just propaganda in the German political conflict of the time.
Reminds me of the Greater German Empire(?) from Bring the Jubilee.
 
Translated from German Wikipedia:
"In the first months after the November Revolution of 1918/19, the first prime minister and foreign minister of the Free State of Bavaria, Kurt Eisner (USPD), sought a Danube federation between Bavaria, the newly founded Czechoslovakia and other states after the fall of the Wittelsbach monarchy. His goal was to assert Bavaria's independence from the German Reich, which at that time stood between a parliamentary democracy and a socialist soviet republic. There, at the latest after the suppression of the Spartacist uprising in January 1919, the development toward a parliamentary Weimar Republic became apparent.
In order to explore the possibilities of a corresponding federation, Eisner contacted the government of the Czechoslovak Republic. However, Eisner was unable to push through his plan against the initially provisional SPD-Reichsregierung or, after the elections to the first National Assembly from February 11, 1919, against the Weimar coalition of SPD, Zentrum and DDP, especially since the Bavarian provisional government of USPD and SPD also held inconsistent positions.
After Kurt Eisner was assassinated by [Anton Graf von Arco auf Valley] on February 21, 1919, developments in Bavaria culminated a few weeks later in the short-lived Munich Council Republic. In it, new plans for a revolutionary federation on the Danube were taken up again, among others with the Hungarian Soviet Republic under Béla Kun, which was communist at the time. In contrast to Eisner's premiership, they also considered a radical separation of Bavaria in the sense of state independence from the German Reich. But these plans, too, quickly came to nothing - at the latest after the Munich Soviet Republic was bloodily crushed by right-wing nationalist Freikorps and Reichswehr units on May 2, 1919."
 
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Translated from German Wikipedia:
"In the first months after the November Revolution of 1918/19, the first prime minister and foreign minister of the Free State of Bavaria, Kurt Eisner (USPD), sought a Danube federation between Bavaria, the newly founded Czechoslovakia and other states after the fall of the Wittelsbach monarchy. His goal was to assert Bavaria's independence from the German Reich, which at that time stood between a parliamentary democracy and a socialist soviet republic. There, at the latest after the suppression of the Spartacus uprising in January 1919, the development toward a parliamentary Weimar Republic became apparent.
In order to explore the possibilities of a corresponding federation, Eisner contacted the government of the Czechoslovak Republic. However, Eisner was unable to push through his plan against the initially provisional SPD-Reichsregierung or, after the elections to the first National Assembly from February 11, 1919, against the Weimar coalition of SPD, Zentrum and DDP, especially since the Bavarian provisional government of USPD and SPD also held inconsistent positions.
After Kurt Eisner was assassinated by [Anton Graf von Arco auf Valley] on February 21, 1919, developments in Bavaria culminated a few weeks later in the short-lived Munich Council Republic. In it, new plans for a revolutionary federation on the Danube were taken up again, among others with the Hungarian soviet republic under Béla Kun, which was communist at the time. In contrast to Eisner's premiership, they also considered a radical separation of Bavaria in the sense of state independence from the German Reich. But these plans, too, quickly came to nothing - at the latest after the Munich Soviet Republic was bloodily crushed by right-wing nationalist Freikorps and Reichswehr units on May 2, 1919."
And what of the Palatinate?
 
This is what Canada could have looked like.
Would California be better off as a Canadian province?

Y'know after seeing so many maps where US prevents Canada from having a Pacific coast it is amusing to see one where the opposite is the case.

(Thought with Oregon/Columbia and California Canadian there is no way Alaska is becoming American so unless it becomes Canadian I guess it remains Russian?)
 
Y'know after seeing so many maps where US prevents Canada from having a Pacific coast it is amusing to see one where the opposite is the case.

(Thought with Oregon/Columbia and California Canadian there is no way Alaska is becoming American so unless it becomes Canadian I guess it remains Russian?)
Alaska was a panic sell, after the crimean war russians were sure it was undefensible and british will invade it in the next war so they wanted to unload it to somebody else for any price they can get before it was too late..
 
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Marcomannia and Sarmatia.png
Marcomannia and Sarmatia - Copy.png

-Green: Province of Marcomannia
-Purple: Province of Sarmatia
-Blue: Other lands that may have been included in either province
These are Roman provinces that Marcus Aurelius may have wanted to annex into the Empire. This is not an exact map as this topic is very obscure, and while we know where the various tribes were in, their exact borders and places were not well known
The Marcomannic Wars were a famous but obscure period where Marcus Aurelius fought and defeated several barbarian tribes along the Empire's borders. The main opponents were the Marcomanni, the Quadi, and the Iazyges. However, there were other tribes mentioned by the Historia Augusta (an unreliable source that I only gave credit to because the early books of the Historia Augusta are more accurate than the rest of the source) and more importantly Cassius Dio. They include the Buri, Hasdingi Vandals, the Lacringi (possibly another Vandal tribe), the Cotini, Hermunduri, and various Free Dacian Tribes.
The main claim for this is the Historia Augusta, which states in Part 2 of the Life of Marcus Aurelius, pg 193-194
"He wished to make a province of Marcomannia and likewise of Sarmatia, and he would have done so had not Avidius Cassius just then raised a rebellion in the East."
and on pg. 201 "For three years thereafter he waged war with the Marcomanni, the Hermunduri, the Sarmatians, and the Quadi, and had he lived a year longer he would have made these regions provinces." While this statement is very bold, it does have some small sentiments from a more reliable quote from Cassius Dio, stating in Book 72 pg 62 "Now if Marcus had lived longer, he would have subdued that entire region; but as it was, he passed away on the seventeenth of March, not as a result of the disease from which he still suffered, but by the act of his physicians, as I have been plainly told, who wished to do Commodus a favour."
While Dio's quote is very obscure and that "subdued" could mean a variety of things, many historians and Romaboos have seen these quotations that Marcus Aurelius intended to expand the Empire into these lands and annex them.
There is also some other supporting evidence, such as the fact that Marcus Aurelius never actually finished his wars, explained by the quotes talking about him living longer and subduing the tribes. Commodus is actually the one who brought the wars to an end, and he withdrew entirely from the region, with the tribes reverting back to being client states. They also built plenty of castras and camps in the territories, indicating that they may have been there to stay. Tribal entities in the Roman Empire and Republic often remained in place, such as in Gaul, making it likely that Marcus may have also intended to annex their lands in a traditional Roman fashion. However, despite this, textual evidence does not completely support this, and there are few other primary sources who state this.
It does bring up some related questions though:
Was this a smart strategic move in the long run?
Would this have led to other conquests, maybe a second attempt in Germania or perhaps even in Poland?
Would a second teutoberg occur?
Was Commodus actually a genius, and not a psycho-coward-degenerate that Cassius Dio and every secondary source says he is?
Is the Historia Augusti the MOST ACCURATE source on Roman History?
Also, here is where you can find some free sources on ancient, medieval, and modern history on not just the Romans, but several others:
 
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