Proposals and War Aims That Didn't Happen Map Thread

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I'm not going to make a hooplah about the borders but just the name South Germany is so wrong it makes the fold between my cheeks and nose itchy 3:
 
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I'm not going to make a hooplah about the borders but just the name Souty Germany is so wrong it makes the fold between my cheeks and nose itchy 3:

Yeah. I have seen that proposal before and that South Germany doesn't make any sense. That would had worked only if there is Southern German states and Austria. Didn't Churchill realise that Hungarian is completely different language or was he too drunken whilst drawing that?
 
Yeah. I have seen that proposal before and that South Germany doesn't make any sense. That would had worked only if there is Southern German states and Austria. Didn't Churchill realise that Hungarian is completely different language or was he too drunken whilst drawing that?
Pretty sure it was probably a ghost of Austro-Hungarian Empire and earlier.
It's not like the to hadn't shared the same monarch since the Middle Ages.
 
Hello, so I got another interesting proposal that was never implemented, and one I talked before in the past. In the 19th Century, as we know the idea of German Unification was divided between the ideas of Kleindeutschland and Großdeutschland, or whether Austria should be allowed to join a Unified Germany. This is because, if Austria did join, they would have to divide its empire.

Well, there was one proposal by Prince Felix of Schwarzenberg, the Prime Minister of the Austrian Empire, proposed this idea: Why not integrate all of the Austrian Empire, including its non-German lands, in a newer German Confederation

Thus was the idea of Großösterreich, also known as Greater Austria, Seventy Million Reich or, the Schwarzenberg Plan

Großösterreich.png

(Map belongs to @Crazy Boris)
Großösterreich_1849-51.svg.png

(Map used as a reference)

Now, let's be honest here: As cool as an Alternate History concept this was... It was impossible to implement. No one would accept this idea. Not the German princes, not the non-German people in Austria, and certainly not foreign nations. It's to the point that it was either a genuine offer or just propaganda in the German political conflict of the time.
 
Hello, so I got another interesting proposal that was never implemented, and one I talked before in the past. In the 19th Century, as we know the idea of German Unification was divided between the ideas of Kleindeutschland and Großdeutschland, or whether Austria should be allowed to join a Unified Germany. This is because, if Austria did join, they would have to divide its empire.

Well, there was one proposal by Prince Felix of Schwarzenberg, the Prime Minister of the Austrian Empire, proposed this idea: Why not integrate all of the Austrian Empire, including its non-German lands, in a newer German Confederation

Thus was the idea of Großösterreich, also known as Greater Austria, Seventy Million Reich or, the Schwarzenberg Plan

View attachment 862767
(Map belongs to @Crazy Boris)
View attachment 862766
(Map used as a reference)

Now, let's be honest here: As cool as an Alternate History concept this was... It was impossible to implement. No one would accept this idea. Not the German princes, not the non-German people in Austria, and certainly not foreign nations. It's to the point that it was either a genuine offer or just propaganda in the German political conflict of the time.
Greater Austria?
Consider: Allstria
 
Hello, so I got another interesting proposal that was never implemented, and one I talked before in the past. In the 19th Century, as we know the idea of German Unification was divided between the ideas of Kleindeutschland and Großdeutschland, or whether Austria should be allowed to join a Unified Germany. This is because, if Austria did join, they would have to divide its empire.

Well, there was one proposal by Prince Felix of Schwarzenberg, the Prime Minister of the Austrian Empire, proposed this idea: Why not integrate all of the Austrian Empire, including its non-German lands, in a newer German Confederation

Thus was the idea of Großösterreich, also known as Greater Austria, Seventy Million Reich or, the Schwarzenberg Plan

View attachment 862767
(Map belongs to @Crazy Boris)
View attachment 862766
(Map used as a reference)

Now, let's be honest here: As cool as an Alternate History concept this was... It was impossible to implement. No one would accept this idea. Not the German princes, not the non-German people in Austria, and certainly not foreign nations. It's to the point that it was either a genuine offer or just propaganda in the German political conflict of the time.
I've seen this one before, but what I've never seen is a lesser Germany under Austrian leadership.
Yes, I know it was not in the emperor's best interests, but you can't tell me know one thought about it.
 
You mean one that would include Austria but exclude Prussia?
Not necessarily, as long as Austria is clearly in charge.

Like I said, it's not something the emperor would be in favor of, since much of his support came from letting the princes be a loose coalition. But someone somewhere had to have thought about it. Writing it down is another matter though.
 
Prussia prior to 1866 war would be divided in pieces by a unified Germany exclusive of it. Such division is manageable when the other states are themselves weak or divided but put them together and Prussia is immediately weakened and perhaps inclined to challenge militarily the Germany exclusive of it.
 
The Far Eastern Republic, also called the Chita Republic, was one of many breakaway states during the Russian Civil War. As Japan joined the other intervening nations in the Russian Civil War, Japanese forces envisaged it as a buffer-state against the USSR. It was not recognised by any government except Japan's (and even then, iirc the civilian government didn't recognise it, only the Japanese military), and lasted only from 1920-1922, when it fell to Bolshevik forces.

1920px-Far_Eastern_Republic_%28orthographic_projection%29.svg.png
 

Crazy Boris

Banned
The Far Eastern Republic, also called the Chita Republic, was one of many breakaway states during the Russian Civil War. As Japan joined the other intervening nations in the Russian Civil War, Japanese forces envisaged it as a buffer-state against the USSR. It was not recognised by any government except Japan's (and even then, iirc the civilian government didn't recognise it, only the Japanese military), and lasted only from 1920-1922, when it fell to Bolshevik forces.

1920px-Far_Eastern_Republic_%28orthographic_projection%29.svg.png

It was established by Japan? But I’m fairly certain it was a Bolshevik puppet
 
The Far Eastern Republic, also called the Chita Republic, was one of many breakaway states during the Russian Civil War. As Japan joined the other intervening nations in the Russian Civil War, Japanese forces envisaged it as a buffer-state against the USSR. It was not recognised by any government except Japan's (and even then, iirc the civilian government didn't recognise it, only the Japanese military), and lasted only from 1920-1922, when it fell to Bolshevik forces.
Another fascinating country during this time period was the Bukharan People's Soviet Republic -- an Islamic Socialist state which overthrew the Emirate of Bukhara and lasted from 1920-1924. Its ideology reflected the Jadid Movement -- a movement which sought to bring a "renewal" (jadid) of Islam through social and political reform. They were opposed by the Basmachi -- anti-Communist, generally pro-Emir Muslim insurgents (including Enver Pasha, the former Ottoman War Minister and architect of the Armenian Genocide).
Some Jadidists took an anti-clerical bent, but many were members of the Ulema themselves (e.g., Zaynulla Rasulev, Musa Bigiev, Bahauddin Wäisi, and perhaps most relevantly to Bukhara Abdurrauf Fitrat), who sought a spiritual revival of Islam among the colonised Faithful as well as a political awakening of the proletariat through Marxist World Revolution. Class struggle was seen as part of jihad to them.
Lenin recognised the Bukharan People's Soviet Republic, and established bilateral relations between Bukhara and Moscow, holding the Bukharan Revolution to be an anti-colonial struggle and therefore one worthy of Soviet support. As an act of goodwill towards the Bukharans and the greater Muslim world, Lenin also repatriated one of the original copies of the Qur'an to Central Asia in 1924 -- it had been in the Imperial Library of Saint Petersburg since 1869.
The Bukharan state was invaded by Stalinist forces after they took power in 1924, with the Jadidist leadership largely being purged thereafter. Abdurrauf Fitrat was memorably charged with "Chagataiism" -- attempting to inspire Chagatai nationalism -- when he was arrested and executed by the Stalinists in 1938. During the Trial of the Twenty-One (Stalin's most spectacular show-trial of accused Trotskyites, including Nikolai Bukharin), two of those purged were Jadidist leaders of the Bukharan People's Soviet Republic.

2880px-Flag_of_the_Bukharan_People%27s_Soviet_Republic.svg.png

2560px-Soviet_Union_-_Bukharan_PSR_%281922%29.svg.png
 
Another fascinating country during this time period was the Bukharan People's Soviet Republic -- an Islamic Socialist state which overthrew the Emirate of Bukhara and lasted from 1920-1924. Its ideology reflected the Jadid Movement -- a movement which sought to bring a "renewal" (jadid) of Islam through social and political reform. They were opposed by the Basmachi -- anti-Communist, generally pro-Emir Muslim insurgents (including Enver Pasha, the former Ottoman War Minister and architect of the Armenian Genocide).
Some Jadidists took an anti-clerical bent, but many were members of the Ulema themselves (e.g., Zaynulla Rasulev, Musa Bigiev, Bahauddin Wäisi, and perhaps most relevantly to Bukhara Abdurrauf Fitrat), who sought a spiritual revival of Islam among the colonised Faithful as well as a political awakening of the proletariat through Marxist World Revolution. Class struggle was seen as part of jihad to them.
Lenin recognised the Bukharan People's Soviet Republic, and established bilateral relations between Bukhara and Moscow, holding the Bukharan Revolution to be an anti-colonial struggle and therefore one worthy of Soviet support. As an act of goodwill towards the Bukharans and the greater Muslim world, Lenin also repatriated one of the original copies of the Qur'an to Central Asia in 1924 -- it had been in the Imperial Library of Saint Petersburg since 1869.
The Bukharan state was invaded by Stalinist forces after they took power in 1924, with the Jadidist leadership largely being purged thereafter. Abdurrauf Fitrat was memorably charged with "Chagataiism" -- attempting to inspire Chagatai nationalism -- when he was arrested and executed by the Stalinists in 1938. During the Trial of the Twenty-One (Stalin's most spectacular show-trial of accused Trotskyites, including Nikolai Bukharin), two of those purged were Jadidist leaders of the Bukharan People's Soviet Republic.

2880px-Flag_of_the_Bukharan_People%27s_Soviet_Republic.svg.png

2560px-Soviet_Union_-_Bukharan_PSR_%281922%29.svg.png
I've always found the survival of Bukhara and Khiva, albeit as vassal states, on into the 20th century (despite being essentially surrounded by areas the Russian Empire annexed outright), fascinating....
 
I've always found the survival of Bukhara and Khiva, albeit as vassal states, on into the 20th century (despite being essentially surrounded by areas the Russian Empire annexed outright), fascinating....
IIRC, it was the Russians going "eeeeeeh, we don't want too many Muslims in the empire. Let's just leave these bits as vassals"
 
I've always found the survival of Bukhara and Khiva, albeit as vassal states, on into the 20th century (despite being essentially surrounded by areas the Russian Empire annexed outright), fascinating....
I don't think the arrangement would have endured much longer.
 
I don't think the arrangement would have endured much longer.
Well, OTL it didn't survive for much longer than the Russian Empire did.... if the Empire had survived, who knows? Might have lasted for a while, so long as the Emir and the Khan didn't cause any trouble....
I remember reading (I think in one of Robert Massie's books) that the last Emir of Bukhara was especially quite well-liked by the Romanovs... the daughters especially looked forward to his visits for the exotic trinkets he would bring them. He wasn't quite as popular with his own people, especially with the Tajiks, whom he treated pretty badly.
 
IWell, OTL it didn't survive for much longer than the Russian Empire did.... if the Empire had survived, who knows? Might have lasted for a while, so long as the Emir and the Khan didn't cause any trouble....
I remember reading (I think in one of Robert Massie's books) that the last Emir of Bukhara was especially quite well-liked by the Romanovs... the daughters especially looked forward to his visits for the exotic trinkets he would bring them. He wasn't quite as popular with his own people, especially with the Tajiks, whom he treated pretty badly.
Eventually tensions would have boiled over as every power present in Inner Asia consolidated control and, in Russia's case, the explosive growth of the Slavic population sought out lands to settle.
 
Eventually tensions would have boiled over as every power present in Inner Asia consolidated control and, in Russia's case, the explosive growth of the Slavic population sought out lands to settle.
Russians colonizing Kazakhstan is sensible. But Khiva and Bukhara didn't have a lot of Russian immigration even after they became Soviet for a reason lol
 
It's pretty odd that Kaliningrad/Königsberg became part of Russia. I know why it was done (not that I agree with it) -- removing the supposed threat of "Prussian Militarism" and whatever -- but it's still odd that it became part of Russia.

Was there ever a proposal that Kaliningrad become part of Poland? Or, if it had to be part of the USSR, why wasn't it part of Lithuania?
 
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