Proposals and War Aims That Didn't Happen Map Thread

xmoose

Iserlohn said:
EDIT: Also if it had become Czechoslovakia's third state, then I think Moravia-Silesia and the Sudetenland could also have become states (both of which were suggested at times). Imagine a five state Czechoslovakia that still calls itself simply Czechoslovakia.
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I don´t thnk so, or, it would depend on degree of autonomy.
Moravia and SIlesia have their own local/country identity, but since 19th century were connected to Bohemia (basically same language, national identity etc.) - the same could be hardly said about Slovaks (despite oficial ideology which viewed them as part of one czech(oslovak) nation), and about Ruthenians/Carpatoukrainians even less.
About Sudetenland is even more complicated. I think it would be very unpopular among czech population, especially its more nationalistic elements and there would be fear that autonomous Sudetenland would strive for total independence (and some sort of anschluss) - on the other hand, there were discussion about some sort of "autonomy", at least in local level, for some predominantly german regions (but I doubt, again, they get so far as some sort of "state" separated from Bohemia)

Btw add part of central/eastern Galicia, cause why not :evilsmile:
 
PariahNihil

PariahNihil

Iserlohn said:
Yes and no. It's bigger! I found the map on Wikipedia, too, and it comes there at a higher resolution...

Uhro-Rusinia_map.jpg


Where you can see that its capital is Košice, Slovakia's current second city.

EDIT: Also if it had become Czechoslovakia's third state, then I think Moravia-Silesia and the Sudetenland could also have become states (both of which were suggested at times). Imagine a five state Czechoslovakia that still calls itself simply Czechoslovakia.
Click to expand...
I loled way too hard at your last sentence and I regret nothing.
 
Marklin

Marklin

Out of curiosity, is there an up-to-date index for this thread? I found one back on page 95, but considering there have been over 150 pages since then...
 

Iserlohn

I have found an excellent ressource on the territorial evolution of the Ernestine Duchies, aka the bulk of modern Thuringia (link here, it's a collection of digital maps made by the University of Mainz), and that way I could contextualize some stuff on the Treaty of Division at Hildburghausen, the treaty which divided the lands of the recently ended line of Sachsen-Gotha-Altenburg.

I will use the map of the Duchy of Sachsen-Gotha-Altenburg in 1820 to demonstrate this.

IPklH0h.png


The original porposal, made by the second-to-last duke of Sachsen-Gotha-Altenburg in 1821, shortly before his death, was the following:
1) Sachsen-Meinigen should receive the territories which are administered from Gotha [which at the very least includes all the exclaves west of the one that includes Kranichfeld; I don't know the status of the Treppendorf and Ämmelstädt ones]. This would also probably also include the Amt Römhild, which was up to that point a condominium of Sachsen-Gotha-Altenburg and Sachsen-Meiningen.
2) In return Sachsen-Meiningen will cede their exclave of the Meininger Oberland (the modern county of Sonneberg) to Sachsen-Coburg-Saalfeld. This exclave is the territory between the two large chunks of Sachsen-Coburg-Saalfeld.
3) Sachsen-Coburg-Saalfeld would also gain the lands of Sachsen-Hilburgshausen (I found no mention of the future of the exclave between Römhild, Bavaria, and Meiningen), but in exchange the duke of Sachsen-Hilburgshausen would gain the Altenburg lands.

This proposal was rejected due to Sachsen-Meiningen claiming that they would become the senior line and that they should inherit all lands belonging to Sachsen-Gotha-Altenburg without any other territorial changes.

In 1825, when the line of Sachsen-Gotha-Altenburg actually went extinct, Sachsen-Meiningen also made a new proposal different than what was adopted in 1826 (s. here), which was to have Sachsen-Meinigen to become a contiguous North Franconian duchy by annexing the lands of Sachsen-Coburg-Saalfeld as well as the Amt Römhild and the Duchy of Sachsen-Hildburghausen, and in exchange allowing the dukes of Coburg-Saalfeld and Hildburghausen to take over Gotha and Altenburg.

EDIT: The wording of the 1825 proposal of a North Franconian duchy made no mention of Saalfeld, only Meiningen's claim on Coburg, so in theory Sachsen-Coburg-Saalfeld might become Sachsen-Gotha-Saalfeld instead of just Sachsen-Gotha.
 
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Beatriz

BrobDingnag said:
>giving China a portion that isn’t coterminous with its existing border

What an idea.
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Also, China was given Shikoku (4.1 m) in one plan, so maybe if the Nationalists are driven off the mainland earlier and the US somehow becomes isolationist again, they can turn the areas they occupy into mini-client states, like the vassals of old.

I wonder why we don’t see these sorts of micro-empires in AH more, like Great Sardinia (and its colony of Tunisia) vassalizing Corsica, Sicily and the Balearica.
 
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NorthTension

NorthTension

Beatriz said:
Also, China was given Shikoku (4.1 m) in one plan, so maybe if the Nationalists are driven off the mainland earlier and the US somehow becomes isolationist again, they can turn the areas they occupy into mini-client states, like the vassals of old.

I wonder why we don’t see these sorts of micro-empires in AH more, like Great Sardinia (and its colony of Tunisia) vassalizing Corsica, Sicily and the Balearica.
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i still haven't seen an actual source for the shikoku thing to be entirely honest, i've seen people say "it was proposed" but no maps or actual documents to back it up
 

Anton2181

"A report submitted to Napoleon by the head of his counterintelligence, the Polish General Michal Sokolnitsky, with recommendations "on ways to rid Europe of the influence of Russia ..."
Sokol2.jpg


A Polish proposal for Napoleon, including a very interesting Big Poland and a bunch of splinter duchies
 
NorthTension

NorthTension

Anton2181 said:
"A report submitted to Napoleon by the head of his counterintelligence, the Polish General Michal Sokolnitsky, with recommendations "on ways to rid Europe of the influence of Russia ..."
Sokol2.jpg


A Polish proposal for Napoleon, including a very interesting Big Poland and a bunch of splinter duchies
Click to expand...
napoléonide/napoleonida my beloved
 

Zurirach Adankar

Iserlohn said:
EDIT: Also if it had become Czechoslovakia's third state, then I think Moravia-Silesia and the Sudetenland could also have become states (both of which were suggested at times). Imagine a five state Czechoslovakia that still calls itself simply Czechoslovakia.
Click to expand...

Here is a VTBAM of a federalized, multi-state Czechoslovakia with 7 states.
Prague, Bohemia, Sudentenland, Moravia, South-Silesia, Slovakia, Uhrorusina
Are some of these states unrealistic?
Further ideas/proposals for more Czechoslovak states?


vtfedczechoslovak.png
 
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