Proposals and War Aims That Didn't Happen Map Thread

Found this while surfing Pinterest. Dang, Leviathan Germany looks sexy.
Wait Germany also annexed Mongolia and East Siberia? I thought those would fall in the Japanese sphere of influence should Russia totally be destroyed.
it isn´t, to many "superstates"... on the other hand, Britain and USA could merge together and Italy would be probably easily taken over by Germany...
poor Japan then...
Japan need not worry. After all Oceania has always been at war with Eurasia, thus their enemies are fighting a two-front war.
 
Good luck trying to find other reliable sources on some of Fischer's claims ;) (I'm not exactly a fan of his...)
Interesting, Why are you not a fan of Fischer's work?

First off, really fantastic breakdown. Enjoyed reading it, especially as I've spent hours trawling over German war aims before, particularly Fischer's book of the same name.

Did want to ask where the Japan detail is mentioned though? I'm very curious for my own TL's sake about what the German high command thought about that!
The 1915-1917 discussions regarding splitting up China between Japan and Russia in exchange for a separate peace begins on page 228 and ends on page 236.
The discussions regarding German Asian colonies and a German-Japanese rapprochement/ possible alliance is on 590 and 607-608.
 
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proposed statesof usa.png

Behold, the sequel to my Proposed States of America Quarter-BAM. Now includes: Greater Idaho, South Utah, Navajo, Trans-Pecos, Vandalia, Nickajack, West Florida, Nantucket, North Virginia, Puerto Rico, US Virgin Islands, Guam, Northern Marianas, American Samoa, two Texas partition plans, and four California partition plans.
 
Map of the Donations of Alexandria

Mark Anthony wanted to give the provinces he was in charge of during the Second Triumvirate to Egypt. This was part of a Roman strategy of using Cleopatra's Seleucid ancestry to justify their rule in the eastern Mediterranean. Anthony sent a request to the Roman senate to approve of his move. It was rejected. Octavian later invaded because he didn't want Cleopatra's son Caesarion to threaten his position as Caesar's heir.
Donations_of_Alexandria_34BC.gif


Kind of reminds of Darius' proposal to Alexander in that they would both form the Byzantine Empire early. I guess this area was just destined to be ruled by a Greek state.

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Interesting, Why are you not a fan of Fischer's work?


The 1915-1917 discussions regarding splitting up China between Japan and Russia in exchange for a separate peace begins on page 228 and ends on page 236.
The discussions regarding German Asian colonies and a German-Japanese rapprochement/ possible alliance is on 590 and 607-608.
Oh, he gathered a lot of evidence, but what some generals wanted, or some group of industrialists or some kolonial gesellschaft wanted, or what the Kaiser may have wanted extrapolated from his sometimes-inane bloviations, wouldn't necessarily have translated into official policy. If some of them did manage to become demands at the negotiating table, they'd doubtless be written back a bit by the time the ink's dry on the Treaty :)
Other that that, I simply think he draws the wrong conclusions from his sometimes-anecdotal sources.
The maps are great, though :)
 
Oh, he gathered a lot of evidence, but what some generals wanted, or some group of industrialists or some kolonial gesellschaft wanted, or what the Kaiser may have wanted extrapolated from his sometimes-inane bloviations, wouldn't necessarily have translated into official policy. If some of them did manage to become demands at the negotiating table, they'd doubtless be written back a bit by the time the ink's dry on the Treaty :)
Other that that, I simply think he draws the wrong conclusions from his sometimes-anecdotal sources.
The maps are great, though :)
Ah, understandable. My maps were simply outlining ALL the aims and proposals made by various people, obviously Siberia detaching from Russia, breaking France into separate states and seizing their empire, and dismantling the British Empire is completely ASB, it was more for fun and because I'm obsessed with the topic. Thank you for the compliment btw 😊
 
A proposed division of Syria and Iraq into four states:

AB15CCD5-6983-41D2-93F0-5F8C355F3C9F_w650_r1_s.gif

The basic ideas seams fine, but what about the Druze state, why is the Alewite one so big, what about the other Syrian minorities (escpecially large Kurdish region in the north and other minorities liek Levantines, Ismailis and other). I assume their states would be to small to exist on their own or so?
 
The basic ideas seams fine, but what about the Druze state, why is the Alewite one so big, what about the other Syrian minorities (escpecially large Kurdish region in the north and other minorities liek Levantines, Ismailis and other). I assume their states would be to small to exist on their own or so?
Ask the people at Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty.
 
A proposed division of Syria and Iraq into four states:

AB15CCD5-6983-41D2-93F0-5F8C355F3C9F_w650_r1_s.gif

Looks whoever wrote this article didn't do any research on where the Alawites actually are beyond "they're in the west"
 
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This, for a lack of a better word, unbelievable map from WW1-era Russian Empire. It comes with a helpful blurb which I have actually translated.

THE MAP OF FUTURE EUROPE
(the way WILHELM "THE TSAR OF EUROPE" never thought to see it)​

RUSSIA — the great and autocratic, it fights for the restoration of right, justice, peace and law on Earth — it does not need other people's own, it does not need other countries' land; it shall only take what it once owned — Red Ruthenia with Lvov and Peremyshl (TN: Przemyśl in present-day Poland) and part of Bukovina with Chernovitsy (TN: Chernivtsi in present-day Ukraine). East Prussia with Königsberg on the Vistula, not once painted crimson with Russian blood, shall again be Russian soil. Danzig and Thorn (TN: now known as Toruń) shall be made Russian fortresses.
Within Russia, under its mighty scepter, free in its self-governance Poland shall reunite its provinces previously stripped away by the scheming of Germany and Austria.

ENGLAND — Its existing colonies publicly solemnly recognized that the just England has become like a mother to them — it will get all colonies of Germany, will ensure the rule of law and justice for them and become a mother to them as well.

FRANCE — will get the territory between rivers Moselle and Rhine with the fortress Koblenz. The black mourning crepe shall fall from the Strasbourg statue (TN: the one on Place de la Concorde in Paris), and once again Alsace and Lorraine shall be free France.

BELGIUM — the first one with its insane bravery to show Germany that the strength is not in cannons, but in spirit; poor, devastated Belgium, does it not deserve to be a great power? It shall gain the Rhine Province, and the right to take the finest artworks from Berlin museums to Brussels.

SERBIA — shall be a big power too; it deserved that by paying with its Belgrade. Bosnia, Herzegovina, Dalmatia and Croatia shall be ceded to it; so that muzzles of Austrian cannons would not look at Belgrade, it shall also gain Semlin (TN: referring to Zemun, now, ironically, a part of Belgrade).

DENMARK — shall get Schleswig and Holstein to the Kiel Canal.

HOLLAND shall get Essen, where Krupp's factories used to be, since the capital of War shall bow down to Hague, the capital of peace.

ITALY — shall get Southern Tirol and Istria with Triest.

SWITZERLAND — a peaceful land of resorts shall get Tirol with its resorts, so that Russian could spend their vacations not in Austria.

ROMANIA will gain part of Bukovina and Transylvania, only because Bukovina used to be Romania.

CZECHIA with Prague and Hungary with Budapest shall each become separate states in the borders of their peoples, with governing chosen by the people.

ALBANIA, having lost any possibility of a separate state, shall get divided between Montenegro, Serbia and Italy.

TURKEY shall keep its belongings as long as it will not go insane and will not send "troops to the bottom of the Black Sea", as said by Mr. Mikhaylovskiy in Russkoe Slovo.

Germany and Austria shall get everything left from other states.
And all the nations of Europe shall live in peace and prosperity, not seeing the terrifying ghost of Wilhelm the Mad and his armored fist.
 
the great and autocratic, it fights for the restoration of right, justice, peace and law on Earth — it does not need other people's own, it does not need other countries' land;

I know a bunch of Polish immigrants who would say otherwise. Don't forget Lithuania.


Within Russia, under its mighty scepter, free in its self-governance Poland shall reunite its provinces previously stripped away by the scheming of Germany and Austria.

Under Tsar Nicholas II, 'self-governance' meant nothing. Just ask the Finns.

SERBIA — shall be a big power too; it deserved that by paying with its Belgrade. Bosnia, Herzegovina, Dalmatia and Croatia shall be ceded to it; so that muzzles of Austrian cannons would not look at Belgrade, it shall also gain Semlin (TN: referring to Zemun, now, ironically, a part of Belgrade).

So, basically, Yugoslavia. We all know how that went in OTL.
 
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I know a bunch of Polish immigrants who would say otherwise. Don't forget Lithuania.




Under Tsar Nicholas II, 'self-governance' meant nothing. Just ask the Finns.



So, basically, Yugoslavia. We all know how that went in OTL.




Isn't this basically what we have in OTL, post 1991?
Slovakia would like a word.
 
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