Proposals and War Aims That Didn't Happen Map Thread

Rather than selling the islands to the United States, the British, or even the Germans, as I know was proposed, was it ever proposed to sell the Danish East Indies to France or the Dutch? And while I know that the US was interested in buying the Danish Virgin Islands, even in 1867 when it was first proposed to buy the two smaller islands of St. Thomas and St. Johns, leaving the larger, outlying island of St. Croix for the Danish to keep, how interested were the British, Germans, French, and Dutch in buying the Danish Virgin Islands?
 
I don't know if anyone has done the map about the 1916 proposals on partitioning the Ottoman Empire, so here it is:
sykes.png


It is based on this map:
1024px-Peace-conference-memoranda-respecting-syria-arabia-palestine5.jpg
 
In 1916 the intention would not have been for an independent! Armenia but for Armenia as part of the Russian Empire I think (maybe if autonomous like Finland)
IIRC Gen. Yudenich suggested that "Ottoman Armenia" (the Six Vilayets) NOT be resettled with Armenian refugees (after all, there were relatively few Armenians left west of the Russian border after 1915 :( ), but instead resettled with Cossacks and ethnic Russians, to form a permanent buffer between the Russian Empire and the "rump" Turkish state... sort of like the "Polish Border Strip" that Ludendorff et al were insisting upon in the old Congress Poland. Would sort of blow a hole in the "Wilsonian Armenia" concept...
 
Supposedly some proposals for western states. Maybe someone could do some digging to find the listed house bills to check for accuracy.
I really like how South Idaho TTL looks exactly like North Idaho OTL. We should have had two Idahos. Just not there; these borders are absolutely terrible.
 
Found at reddit, not sure if it's actually a proposal.

Let's just call it the Frisian Option...

View attachment 570290
There are some Frisian nationalists who still think this sort of thing is -- or ought to be -- viable. It's cute, but ridiculous. Frisian hasn't been spoken in most of the denoted area in hundreds of years. It's also ultra-weird how these guys always claim lots of areas, but never include the bulk of Holland, which was also Frisian-speaking in the way-back-when days. They're weirdly selective in that way.

Anyway, actual spread of Frisian these days can be seen in red, here:



The orange regions aren't Frisian-speaking in anything even approaching a meaningful manner.
 
There are some Frisian nationalists who still think this sort of thing is -- or ought to be -- viable. It's cute, but ridiculous. Frisian hasn't been spoken in most of the denoted area in hundreds of years. It's also ultra-weird how these guys always claim lots of areas, but never include the bulk of Holland, which was also Frisian-speaking in the way-back-when days. They're weirdly selective in that way.

Anyway, actual spread of Frisian these days can be seen in red, here:



The orange regions aren't Frisian-speaking in anything even approaching a meaningful manner.
Wasn't there someone on the board back in the "old days" who was known for "Frisian-wanks"? :)
 
Italian South Turkey is impressive
I mean, I suppose it makes a sort of sense, given that they owned the Dodecanese. I don't know what they expected to do with it, though. Settle it with Italians or something? Or was it just like an occupation, and they would have left after a while?
 
I mean, I suppose it makes a sort of sense, given that they owned the Dodecanese. I don't know what they expected to do with it, though. Settle it with Italians or something? Or was it just like an occupation, and they would have left after a while?
The Italian government tried to settle a few Italians in the Dodecanese, mainly on Rhodes, Kos and Leros IIRC. They weren't very successful at it. Built a few nice buildings, but that was about it. Don't think Italian possession of any part of mainland Anatolia would've been too successful, or too long-lived...
 
The Italian government tried to settle a few Italians in the Dodecanese, mainly on Rhodes, Kos and Leros IIRC. They weren't very successful at it. Built a few nice buildings, but that was about it. Don't think Italian possession of any part of mainland Anatolia would've been too successful, or too long-lived...
All of Anatolia, Persia, China, Afghanistan and Siam could have been partitioned
 
By 1772, the Russo-Turkish War was not going so well for the Ottomans. This concerned the Austrians, who feared the Russians might expand their territory all the way to the Straits and gain total dominance in the Balkans. Kaunitz, the Austrian state chancellor, had convinced Empress Maria Theresa to sign an accord with the Ottomans to try and preserve the integrity of their state, but this accord stopped just short of being an actual military alliance, because the Austrians did not wish to go to war with Russia.

In January of 1772, Kaunitz floated a number of different ideas to deal with the present crisis. The plan that was ultimately adopted was what we now call the First Partition of Poland - Russia would withdraw from Ottoman territory and content itself merely with gaining control over the Crimean Khanate, while the territorial ambitions of Empress Catherine would instead be sated by a mutual division of Polish territory. Many of Kaunitz's plans, however, involved a partition not of Poland, but of the Ottoman Empire. After all, the Turks seemed to be on the verge of collapse anyway - why not join Russia in carving them up rather than trying to keep them intact?

The most novel and ambitious of Kaunitz's proposals envisioned the complete ejection of the Turks from Europe and the creation of two new kingdoms: The first consisting of Thrace, Macedonia, and Albania with its capital at Constantinople ruled by Catherine's lover Gregor Orlov, and the second consisting of the Morea, Crete, Cyprus, and unspecified Aegean islands to be ruled by an Austrian archduke. Kaunitz actually preferred partitioning the Ottomans to partitioning Poland and tried to push the empress in that direction, but to no avail. Maria Theresa's policy was guided by her own morality, and she would not consent to carving up the territory of a neighbor whom she had recently promised her protection. Even if such vast lands could be acquired, she wrote, they would be "purchased too dearly—at the expense of our honor, the glory of the Monarchy, and our good faith and religion." Ironically, the Austro-Turkish accord which Kaunitz had himself pushed for became the empress's reason to oppose his partition plans. As a result, it would eventually be the Poles, not the Turks, who vanished from the map of Europe.



Direct acquisitions by Russia and Austria are indicated with stripes. The border between Austrian and "Rumelian" land is speculative, as are the names of the new states - Kaunitz's plan did not lay down precise borders or state what the new kingdoms would be called. The fate of the Danubian Principalities was not mentioned, so I have left them in, minus "Lesser Wallachia" (Oltenia) which was to be annexed by Austria. The Austrians considered a direct Austrian-Russian border to be undesirable, so it stands to reason that Moldavia would be maintained as a buffer state.
 
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Several years afterwards, another Austro-Russian alliance was formed in 1781 to partition the Ottoman Empire and restore the Byzantine Empire under Catherine's grandson, Konstantin Pavlovich:

Yellow: Hapsburg Empire
Green: Russian Empire
Blue: Kingdom of Dacia to be ruled by Grigory Potemkin
Red: New Byzantine Empire
Cyan: Venice
 
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