Proposals and War Aims That Didn't Happen Map Thread

Another thing about Hyderabad, assuming I'm remembering properly, is that it's Muslim royalty wanted independence but the largely Hindu population wanted to join India, and the government was too democratic/responsive to the people to not join India with so much of it's citizenry arguing for it.
 
If opting out/federalizing seemed like an option a lot more of the monarchs would likely have gone that route. Mind you odds are we get a formal-or-otherwise customs union dominated by (and republican parties funded from) Delhi at best. OTOH this might break Pakistan....
What do you think would be the ideal way to federalize India?
 
If opting out/federalizing seemed like an option a lot more of the monarchs would likely have gone that route. Mind you odds are we get a formal-or-otherwise customs union dominated by (and republican parties funded from) Delhi at best. OTOH this might break Pakistan....
Most likely these nations would be protected by India and Pakistan economically and militarily.
 
What do you think would be the ideal way to federalize India?
Forgoing the whole Pakistan thing would have helped a lot, as would getting the various princes to back the new government (which would mean at least some concessions to them).

I still think a Dominion style setup (with the groundwork starting ~1920 or earlier) would be the best shot at the latter.
 
Hyderabad is weird because it -to my cursory knowledge- had strong leadership, was very wealthy (at least its royals were) and had its own internal institutions like it's own currency, several industries, an airline and more, and so it could potentially have worked as an independent state... but it was also completely surrounded by India. I can't imagine how would that would have worked.
The same way that Lesotho works IOTL, I imagine.
 
Hyderabad is weird because it -to my cursory knowledge- had strong leadership, was very wealthy (at least its royals were) and had its own internal institutions like it's own currency, several industries, an airline and more, and so it could potentially have worked as an independent state... but it was also completely surrounded by India. I can't imagine how would that would have worked.
To my knowledge it was less that they wanted to respect the will of their citizenry, and more that India put a gun to their head and demanded unification.
 
According to reddit this was in 1915 (before Bulgaria entered the war) a proposal of the Russian foreign minister, although with Italian Corsica and possibly independent Ireland I'm a bit skeptical.

proprusfrgnminst.jpg
 
Found a brief reference in John McNeill's Mosquito Empires to a tentative proposal by Dundas of offering St. Domingue to Catherine the Great in 1796 as an incentive for Russia to join the anti-French coalition.
 
I haven't found a map of it, but here is a proposal from the early 1960s of a partition of Cyprus:

Acheson said:
Acheson Plan 1
In return for Turkish agreement to the union of Cyprus with Greece, Greece would make certain concessions to Turkey along the lines suggested below:

1. To give Turkey assurance that its security would not be threatened from Cyprus or from the direction of Cyprus, Greece would cede to Turkey a portion of the island in perpetuity, that is in full sovereignty.

A. This area would be used by Turkey as a military base with full rights to deploy ground, air and naval forces therein. The military purpose of this base would be to deny the island to hostile forces as a base of operations against Turkey and to keep open the approaches to the ports of Mersin and Iskenderun.

B. The area should be fairly substantial in size, large enough both to permit the building of facilities and the conduct of training manoeuvres and operations.

C. It seemed that a logical location for the base area might be the Karpas Peninsula because it was detached from the main body of the island and was ideally situated to cover the approaches to the Turkish ports. Different boundary lines for a base on the peninsula were discussed at different times; one, which appeared to be the minimum acceptable to the Turkish government, ran from Peristeria on the north coast to a point just south-west of Boghaz on the southeast coast. (The Turks agreed that the Monastery of Apostolos Andreas, near the tip of the peninsula, could be excluded from the base area).

2. Special arrangements should be made for the protection and welfare of those Turkish Cypriots who would not be included within the area of the Turkish sovereign base. (This, of course, means the vast majority of the Turkish Cypriot population). These were outlined as follows:

A. There might be one, two or three relatively small areas of the island in which Turkish Cypriots would be in the majority or very nearly so and which could be treated as separate geographical units for administrative purposes within the general governmental structure of the whole island. The Turkish quarter of Nicosia and the area stretching north of it to the Kyrenia Range was a de facto example of such an area. These administrative sub-divisions could have a special local administration of their own, directed and implemented on the ground by Turkish Cypriots. The function of these local administrations… might include such things as the collection of taxes, the expenditure of local revenues for local purposes (schools, mosques, local water supply and local roads), the direction of local police forces and the general administration of justice insofar as it applied to Turkish Cypriots, and possible other attributes of municipal and provincial governments elsewhere…

B. In all the rest of the island, where Turkish Cypriots would necessarily continue to be a relatively small minority of the population, a different arrangement could be made. There might be a central Turkish Cypriot administration established in Nicosia, which would control, for Turkish Cypriots only, many of the same activities and functions that would be undertaken by the local authorities in the separate small geographic units mentioned above. This could be done by demarcating the Turkish quarters of the major towns and identifying the scattered villages that are all-Turkish or have a clear Turkish majority. These would then be considered as under the authority of the central Turkish organisation in Nicosia, which would supervise the election or appointment of local leaders, the selection and administration of police and other normal municipal functions and could provide a system of lower courts for the handling of personal status cases, civil suits between Turks, criminal trials involving only Turks and similar matters of purely Turkish Cypriot concern…

C. The Turkish Cypriots would necessarily have to be citizens of whatever central authority was in control of the island. Subject to the privileges and responsibilities of this citizenship, they could have the local and personal rights and privileges indicated in the preceding two paragraphs. It goes without saying that they would be guaranteed all normal human and minority rights, of which those provided in the Treaty of Lausanne are good examples.

D. As a special safeguard in addition… there should be an international commissioner or commission, perhaps appointed by the UN or the International Court of Justice, who or which could be physically present on the island and charged with watching over the observations of the special status and rights of the Turkish Cypriots. Precedents for this exist in the cases of Danzig and the Soar during the period between the world wars, and the US government considers that this experiment worked well until the advent of Hitler to power in Germany upset all established arrangements. The commissioner or the commission would be empowered to hear complaints, investigate them and make recommendations to the appropriate authorities for correction of injustices. It is conceivable that he might be empowered to order correction and or compensation subject to appeal by the party opposed. If his recommendations or decisions were not accepted by one party or the other, there would be a right of appeal either to the International Court of Justice at the Hague or to some other judicial body which might be specially established under the authority of the UN. An alternative the parties might wish to consider would be for the commissioner and the court to be appointed by NATO, with the NATO members assuming responsibility for enforcement of their decisions.

E. The island of Kastellorizo to be ceded to Turkey.
After this plan was rejected, a second was also discussed, but it was not taken seriously.

https://hellenicantidote.blogspot.com/2009/07/acheson-plan-for-partition-of-cyprus.html
 
Ummm.... Their was a Plan for Imperial russiao have Istanbul and the Straights.
It would have finally given russia Constaninople, after 1000 years of striving. However, the Communists blew that possibility away.
I mean, I doubt a Russian Istanbul would long endure, even if the lower classes of Russia didn't overthrow the Tsarist government. I'm sure that the nearly million inhabitants of Istanbul (of which some 20% of the population were Orthodox -- these being Greeks, predominately) would not appreciate the forcible annexation into Russia.
 
I mean, I doubt a Russian Istanbul would long endure, even if the lower classes of Russia didn't overthrow the Tsarist government. I'm sure that the nearly million inhabitants of Istanbul (of which some 20% of the population were Orthodox -- these being Greeks, predominately) would not appreciate the forcible annexation into Russia.
Could they perhaps play up the protectors of the Orthodox tradition? Rename the Capital to 'New Rome' or something?
What do you think you would do?
 
Could they perhaps play up the protectors of the Orthodox tradition? Rename the Capital to 'New Rome' or something?
What do you think you would do?
I wouldn't let Russians occupy Istanbul, if that's what that question meant. Russian policies in the Caucasus and Finland (literally called Russification) would likely be transplanted to Turkish soil in Istanbul, and renaming the capital to "New Rome" or "Tsarigrad" or even "Constantinople" would be blatant erasure of the culture of a majority of the citizens of Istanbul (being Islamic Turks -- of course, there were Catholic Italians and Orthodox Greeks, as well as smatterings of many other ethnic groups as many large urban areas tend to accrue). "Protectors of the Orthodoxy" would be a slap in the face to the approximate 80% of non-Orthodox peoples inhabiting Istanbul.
 
I wouldn't let Russians occupy Istanbul, if that's what that question meant. Russian policies in the Caucasus and Finland (literally called Russification) would likely be transplanted to Turkish soil in Istanbul, and renaming the capital to "New Rome" or "Tsarigrad" or even "Constantinople" would be blatant erasure of the culture of a majority of the citizens of Istanbul (being Islamic Turks -- of course, there were Catholic Italians and Orthodox Greeks, as well as smatterings of many other ethnic groups as many large urban areas tend to accrue). "Protectors of the Orthodoxy" would be a slap in the face to the approximate 80% of non-Orthodox peoples inhabiting Istanbul.
I mean, it'd be a fairly small amount of land. It's not too hard to clear that small amount of territory when pesky human rights aren't in your way.
 
I mean, I doubt a Russian Istanbul would long endure, even if the lower classes of Russia didn't overthrow the Tsarist government. I'm sure that the nearly million inhabitants of Istanbul (of which some 20% of the population were Orthodox -- these being Greeks, predominately) would not appreciate the forcible annexation into Russia.
Based on this chart...

810F21BE-9CD0-4650-8E64-C3C61FE623CB.png


...Greeks comprised nearly a third of Constantinople’s population after the end of the war. Giving the city a solid Orthodox majority via population transfers does not seem that implausible. It is not as though Russia did not accomplish something like this in our world - the city once known as Königsberg is now called Kaliningrad, and very few Germans live there anymore.
 
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