Proposals and War Aims That Didn't Happen Map Thread

Actually based on what I know they didn't want Dutch colonies but rather Zeelandic Flanders and Dutch Limburg in order to strengthen their defensive abilities against Germany.
ah, in the way it whas said, it was as they wanted true dutch overseas territory
 
Two proposals for Europe by Leopold Kohr (explanations by Frank Jacobs):

As Kohr saw it, the problem with Europe’s geopolitical makeup was the fact that its states were not equal in size, allowing the ‘big ones’ to dominate the rest. Or at least try to, hence the endless series of wars in Europe. One way to solve this, would be to chop up the continent into rectangular chunks of territory, disregarding most existing cultural, religious, linguistic and natural boundaries.

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"One last map by Leopold Kohr, also an addendum to his book ‘The Breakdown of Nations’ (1957). Kohr probably realised that dividing Europe into rectangular, US-style states would clash with the ‘tribal’ makeup of the Old Continent’s culturally diverse peoples. So he modified that idea to propose a European federation of ‘little states’: still too small to cause harm, but more in line with Europe’s ethnic composition."


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The Breakdown of Nations by Leopold Kohr
"Kohr Principles" by Frank Jacobs
"Want World Peace? Divide the World in Enough Small States" by Frank Jacobs
That first map is hideous. The second is better, but I can't see anyone agreeing to it, especially not the Papal States that wouldn't include Rome.
 

Crazy Boris

Banned
Actually based on what I know they didn't want Dutch colonies but rather Zeelandic Flanders and Dutch Limburg in order to strengthen their defensive abilities against Germany.

Correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t the Belgians also try to get Limburg during their war of independence?
 
So it's not very specific, just that Oman would be allowed to do whatever they wanted in the UAE ("The Pirate Coast") and Bahrain (which at the time also controlled Qatar). In exchange, Oman would have ceded all claims to Qeshm, and allow the British to set up settlements on the island in order to place their regional governor for the Persian Gulf there. Would the Omanis have been able to take back the entire present-day UAE, all the way west to Abu Dhabi and Bahrain? Or would they merely have been able to take some of the smaller emirates, in order to make their territory contiguous from metropolitan Oman to Musandam, possibly everything east of Dubai?
 
I think Oman could have gained suzerainty over the Emirates, as this was the time when the Omani Empire was at its height, with the Omani navy being a potent force from the Swahili Coast to the Persian Gulf.

On a completely unrelated note:
Buma Plan 1883.jpg

This may have been posted before, but here's another plan for the draining of the Zuider Zee.
 
As an aside, does anyone know whether this land was going to be turned into a new province (as it was IOTL) or carved up between existing provinces?
It seems that there was no definite decision in that regard, though IOTL Northern Flevoland was part of the province of Overijssel for 40 years until the province of Flevoland was created from the Public Body of the Southern Ijsselmeer Polders. I suspect that if it would be divided among the provinces there would be a lot of squabbling over how much land they did or didn't gain, and so end up as one or two provinces.
 
Does anyone have a map including all of the territory that either used to be controlled by the United States (for instance, Liberia and the Philippines) or was at one point seriously considered for annexation? I do not mean musings or humorous proposals, such as references to the United Kingdom as the 51st state, but the actual, specific proposals that people with political power in Washington wanted to execute. For instance, the American government did desire some or all of the territory that is part of Canada and Mexico today, and there have been plans to annex places like Greenland, Cuba, and even Borneo.

Anyway, some comprehensive map including these claims would be interesting.
 

Skallagrim

Banned
Does anyone have a map including all of the territory that either used to be controlled by the United States (for instance, Liberia and the Philippines) or was at one point seriously considered for annexation? I do not mean musings or humorous proposals, such as references to the United Kingdom as the 51st state, but the actual, specific proposals that people with political power in Washington wanted to execute. For instance, the American government did desire some or all of the territory that is part of Canada and Mexico today, and there have been plans to annex places like Greenland, Cuba, and even Borneo.

Anyway, some comprehensive map including these claims would be interesting.
Some things to consider in this context:

-- Article XI of the Articles of Confederation explicitly invited Canada (not defined) to join the USA; American negotiators at one point asked for Canada (again ill-defined, and perhaps intending only Upper Canada), and at another stage wanted part of it. Interpreted most broadly, the American ambition can be understood as wanting Upper and Lower Canada plus the Maritimes.

-- I swear I've heard that at least someone wanted the USA to buy Prince Rupert's Land, but I don't think this ever made it into a formal proposal. Nevertheless, the Annexation Bill of 1866 (a serious proposal, though never passed by the House) essentially covered all of British North America anyway.

-- There was the proposal to buy Greenland, as you already note.

-- The ambition of the Golden Circle, previously discussed in this thread, would involve the annexation of Mexico, Mesoamerica, the entire Caribbean and the northern shores of South America, at least up to Trinidad, but in some proposals extending to include all or part of the Guyanas.

-- Obviously, all of Oregon Country was a stated goal at one point.

-- The Philippines (again, obviously).

-- You already mentioned Borneo.

-- The notion of Liberia staying under the aegis of the USA is obviously not an impossibility, either.
 

Skallagrim

Banned
Additionally we can include all of the Pacific Islands that the USA formerly governed or claimed:
Palau, Micronesia, Marshall Islands, Tokelau, Samoa, Phoenix Islands, Line Islands
Yes! But the really wild proposals, unfortunately, don't mean the criteria.

I refer, for instance, to Theodore Roosevelt's plan to annex the whole damn Congo. Roosevelt despised Leopold II. In January 1904, when Leopold's depradations in the Free State were very much on the public mind, and editorials advocating action against his regime there were posted in the news-papers roughly every week, a motion passed the Senate that gave support to "any action taken by the President" on the matter of the atrocities in the Congo. A month later, a motion "encouraging the President to intercede" was passed in the Senate. But no real action was taken. Only in 1908 did Roosevelt first suggest (in private) that it would be good if the Congo could outright be taken from Leopold. By that time, he was planning his African expedition. At the end of the year, a detailed editorial was published, proposing that the USA purchase the Congo (with international pressure forcing Leopold to acquiesce), whereupon outgoing President Roosevelt would become its governor (with broad acting powers). Roosevelt evidently liked the idea, and while in Africa, considered that notion and believed it to be a very good idea. Of course, by then, he wasn't President anymore, and Belgium had already taken over Leopold's former "Free State" as a regularised colony.

Another such wild, but awesome-in-an-AH-way, suggestion was the idea that the USA should buy the Russian Far East and large parts of Siberia, which was suggested by several people (some of them quite prominent) in the very early '90s. Yeltsin, who was on "sell everything" spree, was rumoured to be open to the idea if the price was right (it would solve his acute problems very comprehensively), but there was no way to get the Russian public to back it. Most plans were based on buying the thinly-populated parts of Asian Russia, and turning the vast purchased region into corporate concessions. Stuff like this is great for cyberpunk-ish AH scenarios.
 
Does anyone have a map including all of the territory that either used to be controlled by the United States (for instance, Liberia and the Philippines) or was at one point seriously considered for annexation? I do not mean musings or humorous proposals, such as references to the United Kingdom as the 51st state, but the actual, specific proposals that people with political power in Washington wanted to execute. For instance, the American government did desire some or all of the territory that is part of Canada and Mexico today, and there have been plans to annex places like Greenland, Cuba, and even Borneo.

Anyway, some comprehensive map including these claims would be interesting.

As far as I know the Borneo venture was supposed to be a private American venture, not an annexation (unless you are referring to claims to the Sulu Sultanate that I think the US inherited the Spain for the Philippines colony) . I think there was a similar push to lease Kamchatka for private interests, not via the government.

Similarly I think that Liberia was owned privately by the American Colonization Society and it wasn't an area annexed by the United States (I think the popular and lazy histories of Liberia refer to it as independence from the US
 
Another such wild, but awesome-in-an-AH-way, suggestion was the idea that the USA should buy the Russian Far East and large parts of Siberia, which was suggested by several people (some of them quite prominent) in the very early '90s. Yeltsin, who was on "sell everything" spree, was rumoured to be open to the idea if the price was right (it would solve his acute problems very comprehensively), but there was no way to get the Russian public to back it. Most plans were based on buying the thinly-populated parts of Asian Russia, and turning the vast purchased region into corporate concessions. Stuff like this is great for cyberpunk-ish AH scenarios.

This would be a great addition to a scenario where Russia balkanizes even further in the 1990’s. In addition to Chechnya, Kalmykia, Tatarstan, Bashkiria, and some of the other usual suspects securing independence, I think that there were at least semi-serious proposals to sell Kaliningrad and the Kuril Islands to Germany and Japan, respectively.
 
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