Proposal: a collaborative TL about Song Dynasty industrialization

We came supringly close in OTL:

"The first theory of geomorphology was arguably devised by the polymath Chinese scientist and statesman Shen Kuo (1031-1095 AD). This was based on his observation of marine fossil shells in a geological stratum of a mountain hundreds of miles from the Pacific Ocean. Noticing bivalve shells running in a horizontal span along the cut section of a cliffside, he theorized that the cliff was once the pre-historic location of a seashore that had shifted hundreds of miles over the centuries.
He inferred that the land was reshaped and formed by soil erosion of the mountains and by deposition of silt, after observing strange natural erosions of the Taihang Mountains and the Yandang Mountain near Wenzhou. Furthermore, he promoted the theory of gradual climate change over centuries of time once ancient petrified bamboos were found to be preserved underground in the dry, northern climate zone of Yanzhou, which is now modern day Yan'an, Shaanxi province"

Dang it, too bad the intellectuals at that time were too focus on Confucianism and stuff, or the Song could definitely bring us to the modern world.
 
Dang it, too bad the intellectuals at that time were too focus on Confucianism and stuff, or the Song could definitely bring us to the modern world.

I need an answer, in question of what you said, in a quickly and concise form- what killed Song industrialisation? Confucianism? or something else?
If the former is true, then it seems most Asian industrialisation TLs just aren't going to happen.
 
I need an answer, in question of what you said, in a quickly and concise form- what killed Song industrialisation? Confucianism? or something else?
If the former is true, then it seems most Asian industrialisation TLs just aren't going to happen.

I believe it was a combination of conservatism and the Mongol Invasions. Though there's a rather big debate on that.

And the Song are creepily modern at times. We should really try to write from their perspective: it's rather easy to assign modern values to ancient civilizations and that would be inaccurate...
 
A fun side effect of an bigger interest in paleontology might be an early discovery of Lithography (from Greek λίθος, lithos, "stone" and γράφειν, graphein, "to write"). Lithography originally used an image drawn with oil, fat, or wax onto the surface of a smooth, level lithographic limestone plate. The stone was treated with a mixture of acid and gum arabic, etching the portions of the stone which were not protected by the grease-based image.
When the stone was subsequently moistened, these etched areas retained water; an oil-based ink could then be applied and would be repelled by the water, sticking only to the original drawing. The ink would finally be transferred to a blank paper sheet, producing a printed page. This traditional technique is still used in some fine art printmaking applications.
Coincidentally lithographic limestone often is a rich source of fossils.Someone could come up with such a technique process to make "printings" of these fossils. Sooner or later people would realize that they could use this to mass print Chinese script (unlike moveable type printing press) and illustrated technical manuals.
 
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A fun side effect of an bigger interest in paleontology might be an early discovery of Lithography (from Greek λίθος, lithos, "stone" and γράφειν, graphein, "to write"). Lithography originally used an image drawn with oil, fat, or wax onto the surface of a smooth, level lithographic limestone plate. The stone was treated with a mixture of acid and gum arabic, etching the portions of the stone which were not protected by the grease-based image.
When the stone was subsequently moistened, these etched areas retained water; an oil-based ink could then be applied and would be repelled by the water, sticking only to the original drawing. The ink would finally be transferred to a blank paper sheet, producing a printed page. This traditional technique is still used in some fine art printmaking applications.
Coincidentally lithographic limestone often is a rich source of fossils.Someone could come up with such a technique process to make "printings" of these fossils. Sooner or later people would realize that they could use this to mass print Chinese script (unlike moveable type printing press) and illustrated technical manuals.

China had woodblock printed books before the Song Dynasty so they don't lack the technology to do so.
 
China had woodblock printed books before the Song Dynasty so they don't lack the technology to do so.

Absolutely. They had very early woodblock printing and even experimented a bit with the aforementioned moveable type press (long before Gutenberg). The trick is that lithography, when it was invented in 1796, was still seen as groundbreaking, despite a thriving printing industry existing in Europe already. It was apparently much faster and more flexible than any other tradition method. Thus the suggestion that it might be a neat addition.
 
....so we doin this or no?
The other participants still haven't decided on a POD. I put four options:

1: Song Taizu is more successful (e.g. he lives longer)

2: Song Taizong is more successful (e.g. his wars are more successful)

3: Song Zhenzong is more successful (e.g. Song success against the Liao means no Shanyuan Treaty. My POD ideas go here)

4: Wang Anshi is more successful (e.g. his reforms go through and he remains in power longer).

Each has one vote so far.
 
Pretty sure I chose 1) :p. If not, I choose 1). Song Taizu lives longer and he captures the 16 Prefectures, which with competent administration is enough to prevent excessive trouble from the Liao for future generations.
 
I choose 1) and I ask that Korea in this alt timeline that we make be put in a favourable position as an "ally-tributary state" and be developing along similar lines as the Song (quite like the Britain-Belgium relationship). Attacking the Liao together, whatnot.
 
Scenario 4 has three votes ... I haven't voted yet, but I want to get this started, so I'm going to vote scenario 4 too. That's four votes out of seven (of the original members), and so that's what we start with.

I'm giving everybody two days to decide to change their votes though, in case they decide they don't want to do scenario 4.
 
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