Prophet of the Light- A Manichean Timeline Proposal

Hello folks, it's me again. After having written a non-islamic timeline (Dunes of the Desert) halfway till the modern day I am speculating the launch of another collaborative timeline, this time regarding one of the world religions that failed to make it: Manicheism.

However, writing a realistic timeline without major biases alone is actually really difficult, looking back at my timeline I see it being very superfical . Therefore before the launch of this project I am looking for a handful of people who would be willing to add a few chapters here and there, shaping the developments and bringing up some creative ideas

I personally believe that this could be a very interesting subject, which has been poorly developped on the forum.

As for the PoD, I am not certain but we'll, the TL is to start with the sociocultural background of the area
 
Last edited:
Heres a couple of POD:
Any Roman emperor pre-Theodosius chooses Manichaeism.
Mani converts the Sassanids.
Manichaeism stays with the Uighurs.
Manichaeism and other foreign religions arent sutpressed by the Tang.
Other dualist theologies ie Bogomils, Cathars, Paulicians, Mandaeans/Sabaeans, or Marcionism spreads or becomes dominant in Christianity.

If butterflies are willing to be sacrificed, The Apostales focus their efforts Eastwards to the Sassanids or India like St Thomas and the manichaeism comes.

Manichaeism requires Christianity to be a thing to exist, as Jesus is a component of the theology, and it only rose in the mid 200s.
 
Mani converts the Sassanids.
Manichaeism stays with the Uighurs.
Manichaeism and other foreign religions arent sutpressed by the Tang
Manichaeism requires Christianity to be a thing to exist, as Jesus is a component of the theology, and it only rose in the mid 200s.
These three sound fair. Actually it appears that Mani gained favour of two subsequent Sassanid Shahs; unfortunately the successor listens to a Zoroastrian reformist. However the martyrdom is most likely necessary to make it into something.
 
I am willing to assist where I can, especially if the tl is going to have much to do with Central Asia, the Sassanid confederacy and the Arab realms such as the Lakhmids.

Two ideas that came to mind initially for me.

1. The malleable religious climate of Eranshahr at the beginning of Mani's life.

As others have mentioned and as @Tomislav Addai has touched upon, the Sassanid royalty in its very early periods, had a level of religious pluralism in contrast to later Sassanid kings. This pluralism as I contend, is a result of no fully firm Zoroastrianism having taken hold in the midst of the Sassanid royalty prior to the ascent of Kartir to prominence in Cteshipon. Originally, the Sassanid royalty were so-called priest-king vassals of the Arsacids, devoted apparently to Anahita. Later Sassanid monarchs would interpret this origin as a holy act of devotion and mandate of sorts, that the priest-king or Sassandi monarch, who combined spiritual power and charisma with a military force, was the most ideal monarch. This was in opposition in its later development to the ideals of the so-called Great Houses or noble kings of the Eranshahr, who since time immemorial had been devotees of a more conservative and pluralistic religious outlook, namely a hard-polytheism and or permissiveness toward Buddhism, Judaism, Akkadian polytheism, Iranic polytheism, etc...

Arsacid kings, one of the best indicators of the old ways of the Eranshahr realm, were devotees of conceivably all religions in their realm, aside from Judaism. Arsacid kings continued to for instance, act as Akkadian kings, building temples to the old Great Gods, claimed to be Kings of the Universe, performed old ceremonies to the Great Gods (such as the devotion to Ishtar and so forth. Arsacid rulers even went beyond the Achaemenids in some matters, evidence of temple building in Cutha displays that the Arsacid were rebuilding temples to the more obscure Great Gods such as Nurgle and were actively involved in the maintenance of Nippur's Duranki temple and the other cult icons of the region.

This Arsacid religious support of the Akkadian cult centres however, did not necessarily mean that the Arsacids had assimilated or adopted those Gods as their own. Only that about the Arsadcids was a level of eclecticism that characterized their steppe origins and of their aloof posture to some of the activities of the sedentary peoples who inhabited their empire. Whence the Sassanids attained power, a level of religious pluralism remained, permitting the growth of Mani's ideas, the flourishing of Jewish millenial ideas and the foundations of larger Christian communities in the region. However, the Sassanid monarchy made sharp changes in its religious attitude, at the behest of Kartir, a major priest and advocate of the possibly new religion of Zoroastrianism. His religion offered a motive for centralism, increased royal prerogatives, a class of priests to assist the Great King and the affirmation of a Persian nationalism in the face of the foreign noble kings that made up the confederacy.

This, does not have to occur. If the Sassanid royalty for whatever reason come to prefer the nature of their realm and its inherently decentralized confederate nature and thus embrace without qualms a strict religiously plural society, Manichaeism will flourish.

2. For any tl in this period in Central Asia, an interesting entity to access is the Hepthalite empire and their plausible hegemony over the region. Manichaeism by the time that the Hepthalites had become a powerful realm, had been halted in Iran and survived under persecution in the Roman Empire(s) and Sassanid Mesopotamia. The only areas wherein Manichaeism had a large degree of liberty, was in the Hepthalite realm and in Tocharia or the realm of the Vishta Scythian lords of Khotan. Later, Manichaeism would have freedoms in the Uyghur realm and somewhat during the Liao and Song Dynasties, but it had been lessened in importance after the fading of the Uyghur Khaganate and the rise of the Qhara Qhanid and their Islamic conversion, which spelled the end for Buddhism and Manichaeism in Tocharia as the Khotan kingdom was destroyed in 1006.
 
These three sound fair. Actually it appears that Mani gained favour of two subsequent Sassanid Shahs; unfortunately the successor listens to a Zoroastrian reformist. However the martyrdom is most likely necessary to make it into something.
I’d say the most interesting would be Manichaean Persia. The world would basically be alien to ours. The Uighur onenwould be interesting if they can make the Mongols 100% Manichaean, thus making a Manichaean Mongol Empire
 
@John7755 يوحنا I would actually prefer the second option, with it spreading "like wildfire" on the Steppe, among the Hephtalites, possible making inroads into Arabia as well. I would not be so enthusiastic about changing the Sassanid religious policy just yet, but well in the OTL Arab invasions there are claims that the stat religion of the Sassanids (most likely Zurvanism, a "heresy" of Zoroastrianism) was in deep crisis along with the entire religious establishment.... meaning that if the Sassanids get overthrown, the Manicheans may seize their chance.

@Lothal I first read you wanted to make Manichean Russia. x'D . I think with the Hephtalites picking the religion (pulling a Constantine) we could eventually see some changes in Persia, and well the Uyghur Khanate is most likely to make the choice it did...
 
Heres a couple of POD:
Any Roman emperor pre-Theodosius chooses Manichaeism.
Mani converts the Sassanids.
Manichaeism stays with the Uighurs.
Manichaeism and other foreign religions arent sutpressed by the Tang.
Other dualist theologies ie Bogomils, Cathars, Paulicians, Mandaeans/Sabaeans, or Marcionism spreads or becomes dominant in Christianity.

If butterflies are willing to be sacrificed, The Apostales focus their efforts Eastwards to the Sassanids or India like St Thomas and the manichaeism comes.

Manichaeism requires Christianity to be a thing to exist, as Jesus is a component of the theology, and it only rose in the mid 200s.
Or the Red Turban rebels stick to their Manichaeans roots and thus we have a Ming Dynasty that’s actually Manichaean.
 
Mani began preaching in 241 AD and died in 276 AD. In 242 he gave his only Persian work to Shapur, and he actually considered converting. His successor Hormizd also supported him, but then died and his successor threw him in jail and died. That gives him a period of around 30 years where he easily could've converted Shapur and then used that to take power from the Zoroastrians. In the 200s, Christianity hadn't had a single ecumenical council and besides the 4 canonical gospels, they set the Bible in stone. The only beliefs considered heresy was Adoptionism. early Christianity was like the wild west, the first beliefs were set at the Nicaean council which declared Arianism heresy. with small PODs the Patriarch of Constantinople couldve been Miaphysite, and Arianism and Christian Gnosticism couldve been the norm for Christianity.
 
As others have mentioned and as @Tomislav Addai has touched upon, the Sassanid royalty in its very early periods, had a level of religious pluralism in contrast to later Sassanid kings. This pluralism as I contend, is a result of no fully firm Zoroastrianism having taken hold in the midst of the Sassanid royalty prior to the ascent of Kartir to prominence in Cteshipon. Originally, the Sassanid royalty were so-called priest-king vassals of the Arsacids, devoted apparently to Anahita. Later Sassanid monarchs would interpret this origin as a holy act of devotion and mandate of sorts, that the priest-king or Sassandi monarch, who combined spiritual power and charisma with a military force, was the most ideal monarch.

However, isn't the emergence of Kartir a result of precedents set by Ardashir I? It seems to me that a clique of like-minded priests had been gathered together from the start-- if it wasn't Kartir, it would have been Tansar or someone else. By the time Ardashir rebelled the Avestan narratives of early humanity/ideal kingship and memories of the Achaemenids had already started to morph into the epic-history tradition of grand old kings that Ardashir made use of in propaganda about his lineage. The family's transition from priests to kings seems to have been a messy process (Papak seemingly usurping the throne of Pars and then having a bad relationship with the Arsacids, Ardashir's brother dying for some reason, then Ardashir rebelling)-- it's just as much a break with their own past as the break with the Arsacid milieu that they're about to engineer. Shapur had some of the old spirit of ecumenism, but he did include Mazdeshn as one of his titles. I don't think he or any other Sasanid would be willing to let go of the wheel on religion, especially not for the sake of some Mesopotamian outsider. After all, Pars is the one Seleucid/Arsacid subkingdom that never issued Greek coinage, and instead developed the Middle Persian script from Imperial Aramaic and did coin inscriptions with that.

I think Manichaean Iran is impossible without some kind of crisis that knocks the Sasanids off their Mazda-devotionalist trajectory, or replaces them with a new dynasty. I don't know much about Manichaeanism but are there elements that could be considered Pahlav-friendly, to the point where one of the Great Houses could use it as a mandate to end the Sasanid experiment and bring back Arsacid ecumenism?

Another option for Manichaeism is that instead of winning in the east, it wins in the west. And I don't mean "west" like Rome-- even the Levant is sufficient. The faith had a following in the Aramaic-speaking sphere, and in the 200s and 300s inland caravan cities like Hatra and Palmyra were at the height of political and economic relevance. If Manichaeism takes off in the Middle East... the conversion of Armenia was accomplished by Syriac missionaries, and the two regions continued to share doctrinal similarities like Miaphysitism. So now you could have state adoption of Manichaeism, and maybe knock out Nestorianism as a rival...

Manichaean Central Asia is... well, out there the foremost consideration is the stability of the federation, not its uniformity. Mass conversion doesn't arise out of a wish for uniformity, but a wish for stability ("maybe if we convert to Islam the Samanids won't enslave us-- hell, they might send us out to enslave others!"). The religious affiliations of local armies matter more to mass conversion than the affiliations of merchants, travelers, and even royal courts.
 
Opening: Socio-cultural background in Mesopotamia in the late 2nd Century
The Major World Powers

The late 2nd century AD sees the classical world at its apogee. The Roman Empire is at the height of its power extending for over 5 million square kilometers, ruled by the emperor Septimius Severus, who has won the imperial throne after the Year of the Five Emperors (in 193 AD), which was a period of heavy turmoil following the murder of the hated Commodus (1). Subsequently the Praetorian Guard had proclaimed Pertinax, who was however murdered by the Praetorians themselves. The office of the Emperor was then auctioned to Didius Julianus, who was however executed upon senatorial orders.

Septimius Severus is believed to have been the ally of Pertinax, and to secure the imperial throne he had had to defeat two other rivals, Pescennius Niger, the governor of Syria, and Clodius Albinus, who drew his support base from Spain and Gaul.
1586362727243.png

A bust of Septimius Severus
During the reign of Septimius Severus, the borders of the Roman Empire in Europe run roughly on the Rhine and the Danube, but also include Trajan´s addition – Dacia (2). In Britain, the Empire is shielded from Caledonian attacks by Hadrian´s Wall (3) and pushed even further northwards to the Antonine Wall (54; the borders in the Orient extend to the Upper Euphrates and upper Tigris rivers, which are the borders with Armenia.

Being of African origin from Leptis Magna (5), he later became commander of the legions garrisoned in Pannonia; however once emperor this African vector could still be seen in his policies - he has built a memorial over the tomb of Hannibal, but more importantly, he led also some campaigns against the Garamantes (6).
1586362813561.png

Arc of Septimius Severus in Leptis Magna
The Roman Empire is domineering over its one major rival, the Parthian Empire, by securing the frontier with garrison-cities such as Nisibis (7) and Singara (8). Under his rule the military expenditures form a large burden for the treasuries, and resulted also in a significant debasement of the currency.

As mentioned, the major contender to Rome is he Parthian Empire, which cannot be regarded as a centralized realm per se. The Parthians themselves were an Iranian nomadic people, arriving into north-eastern Iran from the regions between the Caspian and the Aral Sea, conquering large parts of the earlier Seleucid Empire. By the year 200 AD they rule directly over large parts of the northern and central Iranian Plateau, extending to Makran (9) and Parthia proper (10). This area is surrounded by a handful of autonomous kingdoms, such as Caucasian Iberia (11), Aghbania, Armenia, Atropatene (12), Adiabene (13), Hatra (14), Characene (15), Elymais (16) and Persis. These bordering realms were tied to the Parthians through the authority and person of the Sassanid king; and of course also through the military might of Parthia based upon fielding a considerable force of heavy cavalry, known as the cataphracts.

Even further east, in the regions extending from Bactria through Gandhara as far the upper Ganges Valley, the northwest of the Indian Subcontinent is dominated by the Kushans, an empire founded by a nomadic Indo-European steppe people, possibly related to the Yuezhi or the Saka. However, they soon adopted Greek and Bactrian as their main languages of administration as they came to rule over much of India. It is the Kushns who can be attributed the spread of Mahayana Buddhism northwards across the Pamir.

Further eastwards in China, the ruling dynasty is named Han and controls areas as far apart as Vietnam, Korea and the Tarim Basin. Those are the four major powers in the world at this point in time; of course there are a handful of other realms such as Funan of the Khmers, Himyar, Axum or Meroe deserving to be named, as well as various dynasties of the Indian Subcontinent. In large and gross, this is the world as how it looks like in the 2nd century AD.

Religious Environment in the Classical World
Roman Empire


Neither Parthia nor Rome are religiously unified empires with an established state religion at this point.

In the Roman Empire, Christians are subject to sporadic persecution, based upon their unwillingness to worship the Roman gods and the Emperor. They were not specifically targeted for being Christian, rather the persecution was based upon them not upholding the “Roman way of life”.

Many Roman deities were equated with Greek ones, such as Jupiter and Zeus or Mars and Ares. This practice was known as interpretation graeca. In general the ancient Roman religion has grown very similar to the Late Greek religion, to such an extent that the two have practically merged and were known as the Hellenistic religion.

The Roman pantheon, comprising of traditional deities such as Jupiter or Mars, was an inclusive one and gradually cults of other deities from all corners of the empire have come to be worshipped. Among the popular ones were those of Serapis, Cybele, Isis (17), Mithras and Sol Invictus, which were becoming more and more popular throughout the Empire, as they were diffused by merchants, legionaries.

Gradually, the ancient Hellenistic religion as getting into deep crisis, and it branches out into three major religious currents: firstly, there is the imperial cult, which evolves out of the ancient Greek hero cults, the Egyptian veneration of their Pharaohs, partially also influenced by the Ptolemaic cult of Alexander the Great. The second current was centred upon various currents of esoteric philosophy, such as Neoplatonism, and thirdly, there was the branch of Greco-Roman mystery cults.

These three branches reflected the tripartite division of theology according to Varro: Civil theology, embodied by the Imperial cult, natural theology in the form of esoteric philosophy and thirdly mythical theology, which demonstrated itself in various mystery cults. These three currents were not in direct competition with each other; rather they supplemented one another, and thus one was most likely be an adherent of all three.

It is important to note here, that both the esoteric philosophy and the mystery cults have had a profound impact on Gnosticism.
1586363177339.png

Roman statue of Isis, 2nd century
The Greco-Roman mysteries were cults of accessible only to initiates, and thus were not public. The initiation ceremony was deeply emotional, and initiation was theoretically open to all social classes. Mostly, the rituals occurred at night and there was some preliminary purification before that. As these gatherings were voluntary, members were required to pay a certain fee, and were promised a reward in this or a future life. In fact, in its early days, Christianity was considered to be one of these mystery religions as well.

The major mystery religions reflected some ancient aspects of the Old Indo-European religions, among the wider known were the Eleusian mysteries, an old agrarian cult highly influenced by Orphism, and were based on the myth of Persephone and Demeter; then we have the Samothracian mysteries, Cult of Cybele, the Great Mother of Anatolia.

Other very popular cults were the Isaic Mysteries, centred on the cycle of life and rebirth, with Isis originally an Egyptian goddess, and was very popular at this time.
1586363021403.png

The tauroctonic (bull-slaying scene, very common in Mithraea
Lastly the Mithraic mysteries were another cult based upon the Iranic hero-god Mithras and was very popular especially among the garrisons of the Roman limes. The cult had its own underground temples (mithraeum), and is depicted as having been born from a rock, slaughtering a bull and dining with the sun. The initiates in this cult had a strict hierarchy, which could be perhaps compared to military ranks.

The third major current present in the Hellenistic religion were esoteric philosophies – the major ones being Hermeticism, apocrypha associated with Hermes Trismegistus, then we have Epicureanism, Neoplatonism and Pythagoreanism. The latter three originated as philosophical currents, but had a religious aspect as well. Many of these philosophical religions were actually monotheistic, expressing belief in theistic monism.

Neoplatonism actually had a significant impact on later gnostic cosmogonies, with having a One supreme god, then the concept of emanations, a world-soul and a Demiurge.

Parthia
The Parthian Empire throughout its existence remains a very pluralistic society, with still some Hellenistic cultural legacies, although the Hellenistic vector was decreasing in influence in favour of an Iranian Renaissance.

Most Parthians were polytheistic, and Iranian gods were often equated with their Greek counterparts – Zeus with Ahura Mazda, Hades with Angra Mainyu, Hera and Aphrodite with Anahita, Apollo with Mithra and Hermes with Shamash. The Arsacid rulers have also humbly established an imperial cult of themselves as well.
1586362895027.png

Parthian votive relief from Khuzestan
Parthian rulers also patronized many local cults connected with the individual satrapies, such as Armenia, but more importantly the cult of Marduk, Ishtar, Ashur, or even more ancient ones such as Duranki or Enki.

Zoroastrianism remains an important part of the religious scene in Parthia, although since the fall of Achaemenid Empire the religion gave way to Hellenism as the prominent current, at least in the major cities. The religion receives however royal patronage and its priests are known as the magi; however it does not mean that it is a state religion actively promoted by the kings.

The Zoroastrian faith speaks of an eternal battle between the forces of Good (advocated by Ahura Mazda) and the forces of Evil led by Angra Mainyu. Initial Zoroastrianism taught aout the free will of each one to choose between good and evil, and the beleivers ought to focus on good thoughts, good words and good deeds.

It has been speculated to what extent and whether Buddhism was present within the borders of the Parthian realm; many modern scholars believe that it was primarily confined to the Kushan realm, and made little, if any, inroads into the Parthian realm

Apart from that there were also communities of Jews (largely in Mesopotamia), early Christians in the empire as well, also considerable Gnostic communities.

Of Christianity and Gnosticism
A religion named Christianity was fast in gaining new converts in the 2nd century. It was based upon the teachings of a well-known Jewish rabbi, known as Jesus of Nazareth, who himself claimed to be Messiah. Having been crucified in the early 1st century, his disciples claimed that He has been resurrected on the third day after dying on the cross. The message he taught was that of mercy and compassion, and his disciples were given the mission to preach his word to every nation, people and tongue.

By the 2nd century AD, the Gospels – stories about the life of Jesus written by his followers, and speaking also of his miracles, teaching, death and resurrection - were circulating in many different versions, and the church of Jesus was getting followers outside of Judea – the other major centres being Antioch, western Asia Minor, Cyprus, Alexandria, Thessaloniki, Corinth, Athens, Nicopolis in Epirus, Crete, and Cyrene in the eastern Mediterranean; the western Mediterranean basin had significant Christian concentration in Rome, Milan, Aquilea, Salonea, but also Carthage and environs in North Africa, southern Gaul and Seville.

Outside of the Empire, Christianity has become deep entrenched in Georgia, Armenia and Ethiopia; in fact Armenia was one of the first countries in the world to declare Christianity as its official religion. The first country to do so, according to the tradition was Osroene, home to Edessa (Urfa), whose king Abgar has been suffering to a certain disease and offered Jesus asylum and wished to become his follower, and believed he would cure him. According to the tradition, one of Jesus´ disciples later cured the king and he converted to Christianity. Be it as it was, Edessa has nevertheless become an important centre of early Christianity, from where the message reached also into Mesopotamia and as far east as Parthia, Media and Bactria.

Nevertheless Christianity during this period has greatly diversified, and the stories of the Gospels (which themselves were very numerous and involved a large number of apocrypha as well) were subject to a broad spectrum of interpretations:
1586362936848.png

A schematic representation of early Christological currents in the 2nd century
  1. Adoptionists taught that Jesus has been an ordinary man, but was adopted as the Son of God at some point in his life (the exact point when this happened was debated, the hottest contenders were the moment of baptism, resurrection or ascension). Adoptionist theology was widespread especially in Spain and Arabia​
  2. Docetists claimed that Jesus was present solely in the spiritual form and that his physical body has been a mere illusion.​
  3. Gnostics held the belief that that Jesus the man was definitely separate from the divine, and an aeon (emanation) of the divine entire his body, but was later again separated from him. However, the Gnostic current was characteristic mostly by its emphasis on secret knowledge​
  4. Jewish Christians were based mainly in Jerusalem and environs and their church was led by James, a direct relative of Jesus. These folks sought to continue to submit to Jewish religious law (Halakha) while accepting the Messianic office of Jesus.​
  5. Marcionism was a belief based upon the teachings of Marcion of Sinope, who read the Old Testament, and he just couldn’t believe that the God of whom Jesus taught must be a different god from the vengeful god of the Old Testament​
  6. Montanism originated in Phrygia, in Asia Minor and was well, founded by a man named Montanus, who claimed that he was receiving continuing prophetic revelations from the Holy Spirit. The Pentecostal movement also stated that new revelations were more important than the older ones, and the group focused on strict ethical standards, while allowing female priesthood.​
  7. And then there was of course what later became he prevailing current in Christianity, which struggled on the relationship between the Human and Divine natures of God.​
So these were the main currents existing in Christianity, trying at first to figure out the relationship between the human and the divine element, a dispute which will mark the early theological disputes for quite a few centuries.
1586363341476.png

One of the Gnostic diagrams of the Universe
The Gnostic movements were very strong in this period, and were most likely influenced by the existence of earlier Hellenistic philosophical traditions, namely Platonism, but also ancient Egyptian religion, Greco-Roman mysteries (namely Orphism) and the dualistic elements of Zoroastrism.

However the major defining element of Gnosticism is its alternative interpretation of the story in the Genesis, which as mentioned, was largely inspired by Hellenistic philosophy. This claims that Yahweh, the creator in Genesis is not the supreme God; rather the highest deity has remained unbeknown to the Jews.

Essential in Gnostic tradition was the concept of a hidden “inner message”, a form of esoteric wisdom, which is passed on to a selected number of initiates. While mainstream Christianity was focused on “quantity”, being open to practically anyone, Gnosticism has taken a more “qualitative” approach, putting emphasis not on gaining a large number of converts, but on passing on the secret knowledge to those worthy of it.

Other major concepts were “emmanations”, a sophisticated and elaborated cosmogony and the concept of demiurge

Among the earliest Gnostic currents was that of Simon Magus, originally a Samaritan, who has a female companion named Helena, a former prostitute. Among his disciples were Menandros and Satornilos. These sects were formed by the followers of John the Baptist; another Samaritan Baptist sect were the Basilidians, who could be found in the Nile Delta.

A second major grouping of Gnosticism were the Sethites and Barbelotes, named after Sett, one of the sons of Adam.

Valentinians were a major current in early western Christianity and viewed themselves as the elite inner core of the Christian church – and were to outsiders almost indistinguishable from mainstream Christians, apparently one of the most successful Gnostic movements. However while seeking to bridge the gap between Christians and Gnostics, his teaching was the most dangerous to the early church.
  1. Commodus has been the son of the philosopher-king Marcus Aurelius, and was portrayed by Joaquin Phoenix in the movie Gladiator, where he has been depicted as the main villain.
  2. Corresponding roughly to the regions of the Banate, Transylvania plus Oltenia in OTL Romania
  3. George R.R. Martin has stated that this structure served as an inspiration for the Wall in Westeros
  4. Running roughly between Edinburgh and Glasgow.
  5. Near present-day Khoms, in Tripolitania, Lybia
  6. An early Berber tribal confederation, living in present-day Fezzan region of Lybia.
  7. Today Nusaybin/Qamishli on the Turkish-Syrian border
  8. Sinjar, in Niniveh Province, Iraq
  9. Coastal parts of Balochistan
  10. Comprising of the region of Khorasan and adjacent parts of Turkmenistan
  11. Can be found in the Kura Valley of present-day Georgia
  12. Corresponding to Iranian Azerbaijan between Lake Urmia and the Caspian Sea
  13. Extending in the pretty-much the same area as Iraqi Kurdistan
  14. Controlling the triangle between Mosul, Baghdad, and Deir-ez-Zor
  15. Located in Lower Mesopotamia
  16. Elymais, also knownas Elam is located in Khuzestan. It is unknown whher its inhabitants spoke the old tongue of Elam at this point in time, it is however evident that they are their descendants.
  17. The Egyptian goddess, not the terrorist organization.
 
Mani began preaching in 241 AD and died in 276 AD. In 242 he gave his only Persian work to Shapur, and he actually considered converting. His successor Hormizd also supported him, but then died and his successor threw him in jail and died. That gives him a period of around 30 years where he easily could've converted Shapur and then used that to take power from the Zoroastrians. In the 200s, Christianity hadn't had a single ecumenical council and besides the 4 canonical gospels, they set the Bible in stone. The only beliefs considered heresy was Adoptionism. early Christianity was like the wild west, the first beliefs were set at the Nicaean council which declared Arianism heresy. with small PODs the Patriarch of Constantinople couldve been Miaphysite, and Arianism and Christian Gnosticism couldve been the norm for Christianity.
This ...sounds...interesting
 
@John7755 يوحنا I would actually prefer the second option, with it spreading "like wildfire" on the Steppe, among the Hephtalites, possible making inroads into Arabia as well. I would not be so enthusiastic about changing the Sassanid religious policy just yet, but well in the OTL Arab invasions there are claims that the stat religion of the Sassanids (most likely Zurvanism, a "heresy" of Zoroastrianism) was in deep crisis along with the entire religious establishment.... meaning that if the Sassanids get overthrown, the Manicheans may seize their chance.

@Lothal I first read you wanted to make Manichean Russia. x'D . I think with the Hephtalites picking the religion (pulling a Constantine) we could eventually see some changes in Persia, and well the Uyghur Khanate is most likely to make the choice it did...
Yeah, evangelical Manichaeans spread with a “conquest” dynasty of nomadic forces seems best. Whether Hephtalites, Turkic, they could conquer any certain nation and create a Manichaean dynasty with the new elite but with a evangelical focus for solidification

Edit: I can’t help but think the Christian world will treat this as satanic
 
Yeah, evangelical Manichaeans spread with a “conquest” dynasty of nomadic forces seems best. Whether Hephtalites, Turkic, they could conquer any certain nation and create a Manichaean dynasty with the new elite but with a evangelical focus for solidification

Edit: I can’t help but think the Christian world will treat this as satanic
A Crusade about to happen?
 
A Crusade about to happen?
I wouldn't say about, not until they are significantly freaked out, after all took a while OTL

I more point they will find it disgusting as Manichaeism has far less abrahamic influences then Islam, full of Zoroastrian Yazatas (among other zoroastrian influences) and including influences from buddhism and even hinduism

The Christian world will find it disgusting for sure and due to the influence of the Manichaen angels (the same as zoroastrian yazatas) expect accusations of polytheism (even though its dual theistic)

Conversion within Iran should get relatively fast when the conquest dynasties established because the familiarity and similarity with Iranian faiths and inclusion Iranian deities (albeit they are demoted being angels within manichaeism.)

This is a evangelical faith so it will threaten christian influence.

I can also see it spread into india because of your preferred way of it (steppe conquerers) which centuries later can have it penetrate even deeper into asian and even east africa...
 
Anyway I look forward to a strong evangelical manichaesm with a strong state backing that.

The similarities with iranic religion will help there but wasn’t a ethnocentric religion so it can spread relatively fast in general as it was an evangelical rival to Christianity.

Manichaesm deserves more althistory love, will follow this timeline.
 
I was initially skeptical of Central Asia as a wellspring of Manichaeism, but after reading about the Uyghur Khaganate I think the idea has some promise. There's still problems though.

***
The Orkhon Uyghur Khaganate (mid-700s to 840) was, as far as I know, the only major state to adopt Manichaeism. Conversion happened somewhere in the early 760s, only a couple decades after the Uyghurs' rise to power-- the traditional story is that while helping the Tang put down the An Lushan Rebellion, the Uyghur Khagan found some Manichaeans holed up in Luoyang and brought them to his capital, but since the Uyghurs were part of the Silk Road they probably had contacts with the west long before that. Manichaeism wasn't just some royal-court cult either-- the first Manichaean khagans added "gun tangrida/ay tangrida" (by the Divine Sun/Moon) to their titles as a sign of faith. They also helped the Manichaean priests set up a local hierarchy in Mongolia and the northern arc of the Tarim Basin, and these priests translated texts into Uyghur and Chinese. Although there was a hiccup where a khagan tried to reverse the conversion and persecute the faith, its fortunes rose again with a new dynasty that regarded it as a pillar of legitimacy.

The Uyghur state didn't need to participate directly in evangelism, as the Manichaean priesthood was very energetic about their job (as can be expected of a group that propagated a more or less consistent doctrine from Egypt to China)-- but what the Uyghur state did manage to do is strong-arm the Tang into reversing an order that banned Manichaeism except among Sogdians (the leverage came from the post-An Lushan Tang being very dependent on the Uyghurs against threats like Tibet). In fact, only after the Uyghurs' collapse in 840 from Yenisey-Kirghiz invasion did the Tang emperor Wuzong (though to be fair, he only came to power in 840) launch the Anti-Buddhist Persecution of 846, which soon turned into an anti-everything persecution. The Manichaeans of China fled to the southern coast; there (based on contemporaneous texts and paintings) they mostly lost the plot on Manichaean doctrine, but the symbolism stayed around long enough to contribute its name to the Ming dynasty.

As for the Uyghurs themselves, they fled to the Tarim basin and set up the new state of Qocho. The Tarim Uyghurs maintained their Orkhon-era Manichaeism for a good century, but in the Bezeklik Caves (Qocho's most significant relic) there's a curious pattern. Cave temples initially dug out as Manichaean temples have their Manichaean sections walled off, and Buddhist imagery pasted all over the "new" cave. Manichaeism is no longer relevant there after the 900s, and soon after that Buddhism undergoes a decline starting with the Karakhanid invasion.

So Manichaeism was adopted by a state and did well for it-- but only one state. So long as that state enjoyed relative isolation and freedom-of-choice in Mongolia that was fine. However, Qocho was part of the Tarim Basin-- a smaller and more tightly-knit neighborhood which was already set on Buddhism. Paintings at Dunhuang (not part of Qocho) from this era depict Uyghur patrons, who were memorialized for making donations. The Uyghurs were pretty good neighbors... after taking steps to "fit in".

To avoid overreliance on one state, there must be multiple states. Not all of these can be founded in formerly-shamanic areas like Mongolia, so Manichaeism needs decisive victories against Buddhism. However, even in Sogdia Manichaeism wasn't able to drive Buddhism out. Maybe the solution is a Manichaean Iran that exerts a Samanid-like pressure on Central Asia, or a Manichaean Tibet. Maybe the Tang are irrationally anti-Buddhist from the start and the Manichaeans help lead the Silk Road resistance against their influence.
 
Last edited:
Idea: Augustine of Hippo stays Manichaean and spreads its ideas and practices after the fall of the Roman Empire. He could easily argue that Rome fell because of Christianity, and he’d be able to spread it as a counter to Christianity until whenever there’s an alt-Clovis, who picks Manichaeanism over Christianity. I’m not sure if this is too late though
 
Idea: Augustine of Hippo stays Manichaean and spreads its ideas and practices after the fall of the Roman Empire. He could easily argue that Rome fell because of Christianity, and he’d be able to spread it as a counter to Christianity until whenever there’s an alt-Clovis, who picks Manichaeanism over Christianity. I’m not sure if this is too late though

All you really need is for a couple of Roman Emperors to embrace Mainchaenism and spread it throughout the Roman Empire, even if Constantine had already reigned, everything he did could be undone.
 
Top