Prominent Interwar German Generals (In a CP Victory)

IOTL Germany obviously lost and the 1920's-30's were somewhat sparse in relation to prominent military commanders rising to the fore. In the event of a CP victory, who do you see as potential high-ranking Generals during this period?

(I have created this discussion a while back, but it didn't create much).
 

Deleted member 1487

Mackensen, arguably Falkenhayn depending on scenario, Ludendorff, von Mudra, Walter Wever, Guderian, Manstein, Rommel (all where successful in WW1) and probably officers that died IOTL, probably several others I can't think of off the cuff.
 
Had a look at Albert Seaton's excellent book The German Army 1933-45, which is very good on the Weimar period. The author points out that
The men who were to occupy positions of responsibility in the German Army of the twenties and the thirties were, for the most part, those who happened to be at the political centre in the strife-ridden days of 1918 and 1919; because they were on the spot, and because they were acceptable to the Social Democrat government of the time, they were nominated to positions that would not have been theirs by virtue of seniority or experience.
Spere Books ed, p2
So without defeat the people would have been quite different - Groener, for example, was very able, but would probably not got as far as he did under a continuing Kaiserreich. His friends and proteges included von Seeckt, Heye, von Hammerstein-Equord, and von Schleicher, all of whom may have been less successful otherwise.

Others: General Becker was Reichsheer head of technical development, based at Charlottenburg Polytechnic, and seems to have been capable.

Von Luettwitz, ex commander of III(Berlin) Corps, and Freikorps CO, supported the attempted Kapp putsch: in a CP victory timeline, would have been a contender for top rank.

Blomberg headed the Truppenamt training department in the mid-20s, and seems to have been a progressive thinker, who fell foul of von Seeckt (for advocating motorbikes for recce troops, and the abandonment of lances).

Lutz, Guderian's predecessor as Schnelltruppe CO, may have lasted longer in a similar role ITTL - Heinz was Fuhrertreu in a way Lutz wasn't.
 
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There, of course, is one somewhat surprising possibility: Hitler.

Even though Hitler did very stupid shit in OTL, he also had good ideas from strategic viewpoint. He was a veteran of the Great War, and refused promotions during it. He wished to remain in the army, but the army had no need for him after the restrictions. ITTL German Army is larger, and Germany is acting somewhat as world police, and a second war is probably still going to happen. France, Italy, and Russia would be revanchist, East Asia would still be a powder keg. Britain could be either neutral, or ally or an enemy. USA could be ally or neutral. I think that this would mean Hitler pursuing a career in the Army, maybe raising to a general. In a Central Victory, we wouldn't know Hitler as a genocidal maniac tyrant, but maybe as a hero of the Eastern Front in WW2. Or he could be a minor politician. Butterflies, butterflies everywhere.
 

Deleted member 1487

There, of course, is one somewhat surprising possibility: Hitler.

Even though Hitler did very stupid shit in OTL, he also had good ideas from strategic viewpoint. He was a veteran of the Great War, and refused promotions during it. He wished to remain in the army, but the army had no need for him after the restrictions. ITTL German Army is larger, and Germany is acting somewhat as world police, and a second war is probably still going to happen. France, Italy, and Russia would be revanchist, East Asia would still be a powder keg. Britain could be either neutral, or ally or an enemy. USA could be ally or neutral. I think that this would mean Hitler pursuing a career in the Army, maybe raising to a general. In a Central Victory, we wouldn't know Hitler as a genocidal maniac tyrant, but maybe as a hero of the Eastern Front in WW2. Or he could be a minor politician. Butterflies, butterflies everywhere.
Ah no, Hitler did not refuse promotion, he was never offered one beyond the equivalent of private first class and is marked in Heer records as being unfit for a command role. He would never rise above corporal. Plus in the German army in WW1 enlisted NEVER rose to officer rank, they wouldn't even promote NCOs to officers even if they had proven themselves in combat and there was a major shortage of officers, the class hierarchy was that stringent. Plus as a low born Austrian he would never be offered command rank in the Bavarian military.
 

cpip

Gone Fishin'
Given that I'm tinkering with a TL where some of this may be relevant, I just want to say thanks for the ideas as well.
 
Hitler was an Austrian, but he was quite decorated for non-German. I am aware that Wikipedia is not the best source, but it's at least mostly reliable, and it says:

"At the Nuremberg Trials two of his former superiors testified that Hitler had refused to be considered for promotion.[15] Hitler was twice decorated for bravery. He received the relatively common Iron Cross, Second Class, in 1914 and Iron Cross, First Class, in 1918, an honour rarely given to a Gefreiter.[16]"
 

Deleted member 1487

Hitler was an Austrian, but he was quite decorated for non-German. I am aware that Wikipedia is not the best source, but it's at least mostly reliable, and it says:

"At the Nuremberg Trials two of his former superiors testified that Hitler had refused to be considered for promotion.[15] Hitler was twice decorated for bravery. He received the relatively common Iron Cross, Second Class, in 1914 and Iron Cross, First Class, in 1918, an honour rarely given to a Gefreiter.[16]"
That's a pretty old source. I think more modern scholarship of his war service has overturned some of this.
 
Well, wiking, you are at least half right: promotions wouldn't come easily for Hitler. But there are many butterflies, and people have climbed the social ladder before. Interwar Germany could be autocratic state, or very similar to Weimar Republic, but with Kaiser as figurehead and bit less problems. Hitler could have been killed in last offensives, or he could've done something that would've made him a war hero. Hitler could've remained as unknown NCO until the second war, and then promoted. Or he could've been a painter.
 
IOTL Germany obviously lost and the 1920's-30's were somewhat sparse in relation to prominent military commanders rising to the fore. In the event of a CP victory, who do you see as potential high-ranking Generals during this period?

(I have created this discussion a while back, but it didn't create much).

Max Hoffmann would have a prominent place after a CP victory.
 
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Driftless

Donor
If the basic premise is some form of CP victory, von Lettow-Vorbeck probably gains some points for keeping his force in play for the duration of the war, but that would be overshadowed by German successes on the continent. Still, he probably gets promoted for his success in a very difficult spot; but to what role?
 

Deleted member 1487

If the basic premise is some form of CP victory, von Lettow-Vorbeck probably gains some points for keeping his force in play for the duration of the war, but that would be overshadowed by German successes on the continent. Still, he probably gets promoted for his success in a very difficult spot; but to what role?
He was getting kind of old, he might well end up a politician like IOTL eventually, though he will remain in the army longer. I'm surprised he lost his commission IOTL though given his success as an officer, you'd like he'd be exactly the guy von Seeckt would want, but perhaps given his rank there wasn't a place for someone in his fifties and little future in the Reichwehr. Interestingly the Brandenburgers were the work of his subordinate in Africa. Maybe if he stays Vorbeck would be the patron of TTL's version of German special ops?
 

Driftless

Donor
He was getting kind of old, he might well end up a politician like IOTL eventually, though he will remain in the army longer. I'm surprised he lost his commission IOTL though given his success as an officer, you'd like he'd be exactly the guy von Seeckt would want, but perhaps given his rank there wasn't a place for someone in his fifties and little future in the Reichwehr. Interestingly the Brandenburgers were the work of his subordinate in Africa. Maybe if he stays Vorbeck would be the patron of TTL's version of German special ops?

That makes some sense. L-V was extremely adept at making the best use of limited resources under extreme pressure. A very useful set of skills for special ops.
 

Deleted member 1487

He was getting kind of old, he might well end up a politician like IOTL eventually, though he will remain in the army longer. I'm surprised he lost his commission IOTL though given his success as an officer, you'd like he'd be exactly the guy von Seeckt would want, but perhaps given his rank there wasn't a place for someone in his fifties and little future in the Reichwehr. Interestingly the Brandenburgers were the work of his subordinate in Africa. Maybe if he stays Vorbeck would be the patron of TTL's version of German special ops?

That makes some sense. L-V was extremely adept at making the best use of limited resources under extreme pressure. A very useful set of skills for special ops.
So...you're saying he's the German Liam Neeson?
 

cpip

Gone Fishin'
Max Hoffmann would have a prominent place after a CP victory.

That depends. If the victory includes Ludendorff and von Hindenburg having achieved the Supreme Command and are showered in glory from winning the war, it's quite possible they'll continue to sideline Hoffmann, at least initially, refusing to grant him his deserved share of the glory.

That doesn't mean Hoffmann might not find a way to press onwards even so, but it is a stumbling block he'll have to overcome.
 
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