Prolonging the Futility: A WW2 European TL

Dec 45 – March 46: The starvation winter
Losses from Operation Downfall were equivalent to the numbers that were estimated. About a quarter million casualties were suffered and experts believed that the Japanese home islands themselves would hold off until at least the summer, with probably another million casualties. After the defeat in France, plus the large amount of casualties in both Europe and Japan, it was hard to sell to the public that defeating the Axis was some matter of existential importance. With Democrats fearing a Republican landslide 1946, Truman was pushed to start making peace. Little did they know that if they literally sat and waited, Japan and Germany would starve by the summer.

The decision was made to drop an atomic bomb a month (which is roughly the rate they were produced) on Japan’s port cities in order to prevent food from reaching the home islands from Korea, Manchuko, and mainland China. Some sort of peace would be made with the Germans and Italians.

The peace posed to Italy was that Sardinia and Sicily would be returned in exchange for an independent Yugoslavia (though Italy would retain their direct occupation zones in these lands). Italy would be returned their African colonies, but they would have to allow for an independent Greece and Dodecanese. French acquisitions would have to be surrendered and trivial reparations paid to them. Essentially, Italy lost hundreds of thousands of men and billions of lire for some trivial acquisitions in the Balkans. Mussolini, seeing this as an allowance of Italy to sit at the table in the post-world order accepted the deal. By Christmas, Italy was out of the war.

Germany was offered another Versailles deal, something the conservatives in the military refused even at this late a date. A sort of insanity had taken over German thinking. The kinks would be worked out of their electric U-Boats. The newest ME-262 was actually reliable and would turn the tide in the skies. The relentless bombing campaigns were already decreasing thanks to the Wasserfall and new anti-aircraft shells (though B17s and B29s with jamming devices were beginning to hamper the Germans). V1-F2s would drop higher chemical payloads. The TA-183 would be unmatched in the skies. Romanian oil imports and synthetic fuel facilities in Silesia were increasing and would improve the agricultural as well as the military situation. The Allies did not have the heart to fight the quagmire in Japan for long.

New developments emboldened the Germans. In a sudden, unanticipated move, the Soviets unleashed an offensive not into Germany or Poland, but against Manchuria. The Soviets had amassed 1.2 million men. Manchuko had about 700,000 defenders. It was the winter and progress was slow, but steady. By March, Soviet forces have reached Korea and Japanese resistance was weak. The Soviets experienced about 100,000 casualties, the Japanese about twice as much, as they withdrew under the onslaught to Korea.

Many in the West were shocked by this dastardly move and wanted to cut off lend lease entirely. However, if this were done, chances were the Soviets would never cede Manchuria to China. So, the threat was made that this would be done. Stalin called off plans, that were never serious, to invade Korea. Lend lease continued to Russia.

With Italy leaving the war, Germany was able to begin importing more through Italy, who was returned their merchant marine. Germany had largely ran out of capital, and so they licensed advanced weapons technology to Italy including proximity fuses for antiaircraft guns, the ME-262, and the Tiger tanks. These weapons were chosen specifically because of both their advanced nature but also defensive utility. They would have little offensive value through the Alps. The Germans were aware that Italy would likewise sell intact versions of all of these to the Allies, but this made little difference as they had already captured all of these.

Through Italian imports, Germany barely avoided complete and utter starvation. The average German lived under a constant barrage of chemical warfare and they were running out of unskilled slave labor to starve to death (as the skilled labor was barely at subsistence level). In retrospect, if the Allies had not dropped atomic weapons, terror bombed Germany, and gassed its people, starvation would have forced a peace as it had in WW1. However, due to the justified feeling that the Wallies were intent from erasing them from existence, the average German was determined to fight on. It was that or the death of everyone they held dear.
 
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The UK in WW1 was able to largely restrict imports to neutral nations to prevent that kind of onwards trade - why would the UK and US combined be unable to do as much to Italy now?
 
Neutral nations in the original time line sent Germany a great deal of supplies at a cost above market value. The blockage worked but the cigarettes and other resources didn't get to Germany magically.
 
Neutral nations in the original time line sent Germany a great deal of supplies at a cost above market value. The blockage worked but the cigarettes and other resources didn't get to Germany magically.
True, but only so much you can get through Sweden. In college, I asked a Belgian lady where the heck they got oranges from during the war. She said spain. A lot of tobacco also came through Turkey. So, you're right, having italy out of the war does not make things 100 percent better, but it opens up the Mediterranean effectively to trade.
 
April 46 – June 46: “Not a step back”
April 46 – June 46: “Not a step back"

With Italy out of the war being a net gain to the Germans in the short term, they were keenly aware that if they continued to lose population centers any chance of forcing a draw would be lost. Nearly 3 million German soldiers were on the western front. On the eastern front, 500,000 men were in East Prussia. There were additionally a million Volkstrum in the west. Opposing them were 4.5 million Allied soldiers (though manpower issues were severe and many were green recruits and low-quality French conscripts). The Soviets maintained about 750,000 soldiers in Lithuania and 700,000 in Belarus. Hungary at this point had near a million men in arms, though only 400,000 were on defensive lines facing the Soviets. Many had to take over occupation duties in Romania, which was nominally ran by a German-Hungarian puppet at this point. Oil imports were continued to Italy, who provided necessary capital to the remaining Axis (which charged Romania for occupational duties). Others were held in reserve in Hungary itself.

German heat-ammunition improved and was able to be fired at increasingly high velocities. The Paznerfaust 250 was available in sufficient numbers and was being exported in large numbers to Hungary and Italy (who wanted the technology). Ironically, the Panzerfaust 350 was just then developed, which included a mounted infrared camera that allowed the wielder to see at night. It should be noted that infrared technology was still clunky, but handheld—making it increasingly practical. Many MP-46s likewise were adapted to include this technology. German production of slat armor for tanks and tank destroyers became more standardized and protected German equipment significantly from foreign heat ammunition.

Gerat 06(N) assault rifles were being produced en masse. MP 510 assault rifles were also reaching Volstrum battalions (as well as exports to the Ukrainians) in significant numbers. The problems with inaccuracy were largely worked out and these were inexpensive, yet very formidable weapons. The average German soldier packed a lot more firepower than the average Allied soldier.

When a fresh French-American offensive to the Rhur region was held to take Dusseldorf (as British assets were now concentrated farther north), as a perquisite to move towards Wuppertal and then Hagen, the defense was savage. In open country German teenagers were picking off Pershing tanks as if it were a game. The fighting in the cities themselves, in the middle of lulls of chemical attacks, had unanticipated firepower from the defenders. This led American commanders to grossly exaggerate German numbers. The M2 carbines had insufficient range and stopping power, nor were they supplied in enough numbers, to counteract German firepower—especially when backed up by a MG-42. Significant German reserves were thrown into the battle to prevent a breakthrough north to the Rhur river (in an attempt to cut off German logistics). They successfully repulsed it with the cost of much blood. Both sides experienced nearly a quarter-million casualties.

Another French-American offensive was held with the intent of reaching Vienna. Nearly 1.2 million soldiers were reserved for the operation. The war of maneuver, due to the effectiveness of Panzerfaust 250s and 350s, did not work out as anticipated and the offensive quickly wore down. Clark lost his nerve and called off the offensive by June, after experiencing 400,000 casualties without having achieved a breakthrough. The Germans, who began the operation with only 800,000 soldiers and Volkstrum had experienced equivalent casualties and had actually begun a withdrawal that would have been perceived as a rout if Clark persisted.

The Soviets attacked into East Prussia and were quickly repulsed at the defensive line, as the deep battle doctrine was neutralized where there was a higher population density. The hail of heat ammunition did not help either. The Soviets, who never fought the Hungarians extensively since Stalingrad, felt that they were not in the position to attack Poland simultaneously. In any event, enough of an effort had to be sustained to justify Lend Lease, which their economy still dreadfully needed. Especially after the stunt they pulled in Manchuria.

Resistance in the Japanese home islands was finally collapsing as mass starvation ensued. Many military leaders fled to occupied Korea and China. Japan would continue to hold out until it was completely occupied by the end of the Summer. It was a humanitarian disaster, but it permitted atomic weapons to be used against Germany once more. British and American casualties would end up being near 1.1 million by the end of the campaign. To prevent an outright genocide of the Japanese people (which could not be justified after the discovery of concentration camps in western Germany), significant resources had to be dedicated to the Japanese home islands—resources so significant (as rice and wheat imports were not forthcoming from Japanese occupied Korea and China, nor the Soviet Manchuria) that it seriously compromised the Allies’ ability to feed themselves without calling back reserves to enter the civilian economy.

Truman, Attlee, de Gaulle, and Stalin attended a conference in Yalta. Stalin recognized that Attlee wanted peace at this point as Britain no longer wanted to be invested in any land operations. He also understood that Truman needed victory by November or an anti-war party would take over in the United States. Truman knew that Stalin wanted Poland within his sphere of influence, territorial acquisitions in East Prussia, and Lend Lease.

The lack of enthusiasm from Attlee doomed the conference. He also conceded the licensing of the Gloster Meteor for no major concessions, something that happily shocked Stalin. Truman was interested in perhaps one last major offensive towards Vienna and the Rhur concurrently, a massive expending of American (and French) manpower; but this was contingent upon a serious Soviet offensive into Germany. De Gaulle wanted increased financial support to France in exchange for participation in this offensive, as well as the licensing of building the Pershing tank (many of which were now manned by French crews). Stalin wanted the exchange of “peaceful” nuclear technology, something that both Attlee and de Gaulle immediately asked for as well. Truman rebuffed these offers, saying that no peaceful application was yet invented.

Truman also made clear that Soviet incursions into Korea or further into Japan would jeopardize the “alliance.” This made clear to the conference participants that an Imperial Japan would survive the war, a Japan strangely located in Korea and Japan. It was hoped that the Chinese would shoulder the remaining burden of fighting that war. The cracks in the alliance, where American played the senior partner, were obvious.

And so, the conference came to nothing other than an agreement to continue the status quo of uncoordinated policy decisions and the continued sending of Lend Lease to the Soviets, simply so they would continue applying pressure into East Prussia.
 

Coulsdon Eagle

Monthly Donor
How so? The boats would be destroyed in dock?
Leaving aside the fact that most vessels would be in anchorages and not docks, so more vulnerable to bad weather, you will have a continual train of vessels moving forward supplies for the assault . Those are delayed by the typhoon, so the build up is interrupted, with the consequent impact on the timetable.

Airfields will be wrecked, planes destroyed, observation flights cancelled. Aerial mining to protect the invasion beaches will suffer a hiatus.
 
Leaving aside the fact that most vessels would be in anchorages and not docks, so more vulnerable to bad weather, you will have a continual train of vessels moving forward supplies for the assault . Those are delayed by the typhoon, so the build up is interrupted, with the consequent impact on the timetable.

Airfields will be wrecked, planes destroyed, observation flights cancelled. Aerial mining to protect the invasion beaches will suffer a hiatus.
hmm, i'd need radical re-writes, I presume it would delay the operation to April.
 
That's a good point, but let's just say it was part of the peace negotiation.

They don't need to restrict any import, Italy will have barely (and i'm optimistic beyond any reasonable way) the money to buy things for her and do it at credit is out of the question and if anyone even try to suggest to give some of the few money left to the German will be stoned to death, frankly German license will be useless as i doubt that there will be a lot of industries left and Benny will know that for Germany the writings are on the wall so he will try to distance himself...not that really matter, Benny is out of power or in his way to forced pension due to lead poisoning as the war has not really a glorious one and frankly as the condition of OTL Italy by the PoD, any italian goverment will accept such peace terms immediately and will discard Germany immediately, basically the Wallies need only to put the clause that they will stop any commerce with Germany and Italy will gladly accept.

Plus honestly, the Axis can field all the men they can, unfortunely they lack any mean to supply them or feed them
 
And so, the conference came to nothing other than an agreement to continue the status quo of uncoordinated policy decisions and the continued sending of Lend Lease to the Soviets, simply so they would continue applying pressure into East Prussia.
What of the Soviet arms industry? What kind of weapons are they making by now? Are pretty much all of their weapons American made by now (hopefully not)? Supposedly, their doctrine and attacks are nullified, are they sitting at pretty much 1942 tech? Because if so, it's my opinion that they should be roughly on par with the WAllies in Manpower on the Front (with a much larger amount of that being experienced/seasoned) with the only thing they are behind more than a year or two in is Nuclear weapon development.

They have little offensive pressure being put on them from any side and ITTL the Operation Unthinkable would literally be "unthinkable" because the USSR has had time to rearm and relieve the pressure put on them even moreso than OTL USSR, and with the leisurely style of combat (what you have described is pretty much a frontline of artillery duels with the occasional massive attack, like WWI Western Front) they would be able to roll out new weapons and designs to the front directly for testing. Make a batch, send some to the front, if they get lost or destroyed, oh well, make more.

OTL the Soviets also had a truly terrible Jet fighter by 1946 mostly designed from scratch so they aren't even un-catchably far behind in jet development.

Edit: I suggest you go over the Soviet situation in more detail, and btw the Soviets stormed Manchuria in just a few weeks OTL, it had pretty much the same scale and was not a slow push.
 
Leaving aside the fact that most vessels would be in anchorages and not docks, so more vulnerable to bad weather, you will have a continual train of vessels moving forward supplies for the assault . Those are delayed by the typhoon, so the build up is interrupted, with the consequent impact on the timetable.

Airfields will be wrecked, planes destroyed, observation flights cancelled. Aerial mining to protect the invasion beaches will suffer a hiatus.
I read up on it and it was not that bad, especially considering the sheer size of the Allied fleet and political pressures to end the war.
They don't need to restrict any import, Italy will have barely (and i'm optimistic beyond any reasonable way) the money to buy things for her and do it at credit is out of the question and if anyone even try to suggest to give some of the few money left to the German will be stoned to death, frankly German license will be useless as i doubt that there will be a lot of industries left and Benny will know that for Germany the writings are on the wall so he will try to distance himself...not that really matter, Benny is out of power or in his way to forced pension due to lead poisoning as the war has not really a glorious one and frankly as the condition of OTL Italy by the PoD, any italian goverment will accept such peace terms immediately and will discard Germany immediately, basically the Wallies need only to put the clause that they will stop any commerce with Germany and Italy will gladly accept.

Plus honestly, the Axis can field all the men they can, unfortunely they lack any mean to supply them or feed them
I agree in many respects. Earlier ITTL, the real question is how on Earth do they feed these guys. Pretty much 2 answers. For the latter, a "free" Ukraine is more economically efficient. The former, the Axis was blockaded for years. Germany has Europe's gold and nowhere to spend it. Italy has Romania's gold and nowhere to spend it. Now the blockade is over for Italy...time to spend like a sailor. As for your gloomy view of Italy's position at this point, they have saved face and even acquired territory. I don't know how much harder one can wank Italy.
What of the Soviet arms industry? What kind of weapons are they making by now? Are pretty much all of their weapons American made by now (hopefully not)? Supposedly, their doctrine and attacks are nullified, are they sitting at pretty much 1942 tech? Because if so, it's my opinion that they should be roughly on par with the WAllies in Manpower on the Front (with a much larger amount of that being experienced/seasoned) with the only thing they are behind more than a year or two in is Nuclear weapon development.

They have little offensive pressure being put on them from any side and ITTL the Operation Unthinkable would literally be "unthinkable" because the USSR has had time to rearm and relieve the pressure put on them even moreso than OTL USSR, and with the leisurely style of combat (what you have described is pretty much a frontline of artillery duels with the occasional massive attack, like WWI Western Front) they would be able to roll out new weapons and designs to the front directly for testing. Make a batch, send some to the front, if they get lost or destroyed, oh well, make more.

OTL the Soviets also had a truly terrible Jet fighter by 1946 mostly designed from scratch so they aren't even un-catchably far behind in jet development.

Edit: I suggest you go over the Soviet situation in more detail, and btw the Soviets stormed Manchuria in just a few weeks OTL, it had pretty much the same scale and was not a slow push.
Soviet tech ill be focused on after the war, but their development is similar to OTL. The IS3 will go online. They have their own rocket scientists. They got the Gloster Meteor ITTL, just like OTL, so the Mig 15 will be made as per OTL. Soviet Union ITTL is in some respects worse off because they don't pillage eastern Europe. The real knock on effects will be in Asia, due to the post-war situation there...Stalin's successor is the real wild card and not ASB either, if you know the man's background.

As for the invasion of Manchura, it took longer simply because Soviets are a bit stunted ITTL and the invasion happens in the winter, instead of the Summer.
 
I agree in many respects. Earlier ITTL, the real question is how on Earth do they feed these guys. Pretty much 2 answers. For the latter, a "free" Ukraine is more economically efficient. The former, the Axis was blockaded for years. Germany has Europe's gold and nowhere to spend it. Italy has Romania's gold and nowhere to spend it. Now the blockade is over for Italy...time to spend like a sailor. As for your gloomy view of Italy's position at this point, they have saved face and even acquired territory. I don't know how much harder one can wank Italy.

The war has been costly in both blood and treasure, the strategic bomb of the nation is even on par of OTL will have caused uncalculable damage, Libya will need to be retaken by the locals same for Abyssinia for all your troubles you get some piece of Dalmatia and Slovenia that are worthy more or less nothing. Benny is out of the job Asap and he will be lucky to leave it alive.
The entire goverment of Italy for a proposal like yours will have happyly sold mothers, daughters and sisters, the addition to not commerce with Germany will have been accepted immediately and without any protest, hell for that treaty Italy will have immediately switched side.
Italy at the moment will use whatever little fund has (Romania gold is nowhere near the value of the war expediture and the damage done) to rebuild and as Germany it's on her way out, being to cozy with her will be totally avoided...honestly anyone (even Benny itself) will start immediately to try to patch up things with the Wallies as we damned need their money and commerce with them, same for all the rest of the european nations.
And while for some reason in the treaty for Italy say that nothing will block their import, the Wallies need only few chosen word for the remaining neutral to sell to Italy just what they need and nothing more to spare for Germany.
Not considering that ports, road and railway in Italy will be so damaged that any transport of good and material will be extremely difficult for months
 

Coulsdon Eagle

Monthly Donor
It is the size of the undertaking that makes the difference as you need so many more supplies, so a larger number of ships that are delayed, out of position or (hopefully not) never arrive.
 
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