Pro-Axis, pro-Nazi, pro-fascist Pope
- Thread starter Ryker of Terra
- Start date
Thanks for the interesting read! Even if his ideas were bad.
The biggest impact is how he got to be elected Pope, I'd say; even if we butterfly Pius XI's death a few years before OTL, he simply lacks the cred to be a major candidate, and Eugenio Pacelli's vast diplomatic credentials most likely always win him the job from 1935 onwards. So it means a shift in the College (or a flunk) he managed to abuse; it's also worth noting that before the Anschluss he seemed to be far more well received than in his later years and correspondingly less radical in outlook.
Honestly? Celestine's precedent exists and I have zero doubt the Allies would be keen to force him to resign, unless he does something super dumb like leaving Rome to "administer spiritual guidance to the suffering lambs of Germany".
While Catholic churches are known to have worked "despite the bad Popes", the internal schism would be far bigger, poison future ecumenism and the relevance of the Holy See in the post-War world, especially as Hudal would have a decade to progressively purge opposers and appoint like-minded people to higher positions. Depending on how monumentally stupid he behaves, we could indeed see a de-Nazification of the Church along with a moderate exodus to other Christian confessions - but nowhere near as big as most here seem to believe.
The biggest impact is how he got to be elected Pope, I'd say; even if we butterfly Pius XI's death a few years before OTL, he simply lacks the cred to be a major candidate, and Eugenio Pacelli's vast diplomatic credentials most likely always win him the job from 1935 onwards. So it means a shift in the College (or a flunk) he managed to abuse; it's also worth noting that before the Anschluss he seemed to be far more well received than in his later years and correspondingly less radical in outlook.
Honestly? Celestine's precedent exists and I have zero doubt the Allies would be keen to force him to resign, unless he does something super dumb like leaving Rome to "administer spiritual guidance to the suffering lambs of Germany".
While Catholic churches are known to have worked "despite the bad Popes", the internal schism would be far bigger, poison future ecumenism and the relevance of the Holy See in the post-War world, especially as Hudal would have a decade to progressively purge opposers and appoint like-minded people to higher positions. Depending on how monumentally stupid he behaves, we could indeed see a de-Nazification of the Church along with a moderate exodus to other Christian confessions - but nowhere near as big as most here seem to believe.
Obviously it could happen but I don’t know how popular Hudal was compared to other Italians. Maybe your best chance might be to get a pro fascist Italian or even just a fascist friendly one but even those Italian cardinals were not supportive of Nazi racial policy.
This would lead me to think that if the Nazis want a pope, they capture Pius and force him to compromise under pain of death, or they try to go covert and kill him and force the hand of European cardinals to elect Hudal. However one big issue is this: How do you get Cardinals from outside of Europe to show up let alone cooperate? If anything, you’d have Cardinals from occupied countries who’d try to escape and tell people the fascists were trying to rig a papal election and you’d have not only the worlds Catholics opposed, but even Catholics in Axis nations feeling betrayed.
This would lead me to think that if the Nazis want a pope, they capture Pius and force him to compromise under pain of death, or they try to go covert and kill him and force the hand of European cardinals to elect Hudal. However one big issue is this: How do you get Cardinals from outside of Europe to show up let alone cooperate? If anything, you’d have Cardinals from occupied countries who’d try to escape and tell people the fascists were trying to rig a papal election and you’d have not only the worlds Catholics opposed, but even Catholics in Axis nations feeling betrayed.
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Probably an intense civil war as the effect of the Papacy would likely push the Partisans towards Communism, with a similar state as in Yugoslavia with the Communists winning the 1946 election. The Catholics and Monarchists would rebel and a very intense civil war would occur. I would believe that the Catholics would win since Tito would deny the Red Army the permission to cross Yugoslavia into Italy after the Tito-Stalin schism of 1949, and the Catholics would put up a long fight using guerilla tactics that could turn into a Soviet Vietnam, lasting even as far as 1955. In my opinion, Khrushchev would end the war and a Catholic dictatorship like in Portugal would last until 1989.
I've long thought that a pro-Nazi pope leading to a schism during World War II would be interesting. Perhaps the POD is something in the Lateran Treaty that gives Mussolini influence over the papacy. Our Nazi pope is thus elected under questionable circumstances, and when the schism occurs, pro-Western cardinals meet in Boston (or Montreal, or Mexico City) and elect an antipope.
The entire point of the Lateran Treaty was to give enough indipendence to the Pope that he'd lift all proclaims against partecipating in Italian politics (and, by extension, supporting the Italian Government at that point in time: that is to say, at that time, Mussolini), there's no way the Pope would accept such a clause being inserted, simply because he's the party that has nothing to lose by saying "no".
As for the thread question: one consequence, aside from giving only token protest to Nazi Germany'0s treatment of the Catholic Church in Poland, would be that Rome's Jeish community would be even more screwed, as there's no way TTL's Pope would try and hide any in the Vatican (in fact, he'd likely get the clergical machine working to point out as many as possible). Meaning that the Fosse Ardeatine get even more filled with corpses; and in the post-war, there's going to be some pretty awkward questions going around the city of Rome, if not the whole of Italy. I certainly don't expect Romans to see this Nazi Pope in any favourable light whatsoever even if the WAllies and Italian governments combined swept him away and pretended that he never happened.
External reactions aren't my forte, but it wasn't long ago that US Catholic discrimination had subsumed into politer forms. Even if bishops from the Americas convened in Monreàl or New York or whever to elect an antipope ideologically opposing the then-reigning pope, I can't imagine the situation looking good for US atholics. LAtin Americans might just nod and grin and pretend to not to hear the whole way through, though.
It might be something unofficial and behind-the-scenes. All we need is for the election of the Nazi Pope to be tainted.
Fortunately, the Democrats are in power at the moment, and Irish Catholics had long been part of their voter base (particularly FDR's branch of the party). A surge in anti-Catholic sentiment is likely, but FDR would put the kibosh on anything formal.
Another thing I could think of is this. Let’s say that somehow against all odds in the even of the death of Pius XII that an election is held. If some how the Nazis get Hudal by rigging such an election, the war is almost over. Even if Hudal is a Nazi stooge, I’m guessing he could easily just be forced to make a statement against Hitler once the war is over and things are just hunky dory until things are exposed years later.