Pritviraj Chauhan wins the Battle of Tarain

I'm more interested with the idea that people are seriously bandying about a Rajput state conquering Afghanistan.

I thought thqt was as impossible as Sealion.

Also more Indian timelines are always a pleasure to read. I've attempted to expand my knowledge to the Far East but I find Indian history makes European dynastic squabbling look like Lord of the Rings compared with Romance of the Three Kingdoms. Its just so different from what I'm used to dealing with, I don't know any of the players or locations like I do in Europe and the Levant.

From what I've read, it seems that getting control of Kabul was the key to ensuring some chance of controlling Afghanistan. That and having tribal allies.
 
@The Undead Martyr
Actually, invading Afghanistan is pretty doable. Most people tend to misunderstand one core aspect of nomadic tribes, their loyalty to their leaders was swayed by promises of loot and plunder. This is why countless nomadic groups invaded with far larger armies than their population would deem reasonable. They were motivated by wealth and glory,same as any other nomad since time immemorial. On the offense few armies were as motivated.
On the other hand,a purely defensive war is an entirely different proposition. Here they had few of those motivations. Ghuri himself is unlikely to call for help from his nominal vassals, (especially after being defeated twice at Tarain) as it would be seen as a sign of weakness. At this point most of the warlords, Türks or not would be rebellious and Chauhan's inavsion just might be the final straw. All he would do is easily brush aside the weak infighting Afghans and seize Kabul and it's environs. The Türks would likely be too busy to bother much. Don't know how far he could go, but holding Kabul itself (long-term)is difficult but certainly doable.
 
I'm more interested with the idea that people are seriously bandying about a Rajput state conquering Afghanistan.

I thought thqt was as impossible as Sealion.

Also more Indian timelines are always a pleasure to read. I've attempted to expand my knowledge to the Far East but I find Indian history makes European dynastic squabbling look like Lord of the Rings compared with Romance of the Three Kingdoms. Its just so different from what I'm used to dealing with, I don't know any of the players or locations like I do in Europe and the Levant.

It wasn't necessarily impossible to take control of Afghanistan. The semi-legendary Bappa Rawal, also known as Shilataditya Gahlot for those who are looking for his historical name, did it (OK, it's a very bad example) and before that the much more realistic Ashoka Maurya achieved such a feat when he established his Arachosia governate, known as the Gandhara Mahaksatrap in it's time. Admittedly the new Islamic faith of the Afghans had given them a revitalised identity, but the Ghor province which Ghori came from remained animistic worshippers till at least fifty years after his death.

As for Indian history's complexity I have to agree with you :p. It can become a massive hassle to memorise what Mahajanpada was in control of Kaushambi at the time of Alexander's arrival, which Rajput clans were of Bhil descent and which ones were incorporated from nomadic invaders such as the White Huns and when they got incorporated into the Rajput fold, when did the tripolar struggle between the Cholas, Chera and Pandyas finally get broken in the South and who was the guy that established X Sultanate in the region of Y etc. etc. Basically Wikipedia becomes essential because words and names start merging in your head after a while.

The coming of the Mughals simplified things by a LARGE measure :p
 
All very valid points, with Ghori dead, there would likely be mass instability in his former kingdom/region of governance, and that is something someone like Chauhan could try to take advantage of.
 
I'm actually thinking of doing a Prithviraj Chauhan TLIAW since I'm kinda running dry on inspiration for my Ai Orsa Scythian TL and Sub-continent focused TLs in general. Hopefully this might revive some of my creative juices and get them flowing again.
 
Not to derail this thread, but has anyone here managed to check out my timeline The Sun Will Rise? It features a few things that are changing India.
 
It wasn't necessarily impossible to take control of Afghanistan. The semi-legendary Bappa Rawal, also known as Shilataditya Gahlot for those who are looking for his historical name, did it (OK, it's a very bad example) and before that the much more realistic Ashoka Maurya achieved such a feat when he established his Arachosia governate, known as the Gandhara Mahaksatrap in it's time. Admittedly the new Islamic faith of the Afghans had given them a revitalised identity, but the Ghor province which Ghori came from remained animistic worshippers till at least fifty years after his death.

As for Indian history's complexity I have to agree with you :p. It can become a massive hassle to memorise what Mahajanpada was in control of Kaushambi at the time of Alexander's arrival, which Rajput clans were of Bhil descent and which ones were incorporated from nomadic invaders such as the White Huns and when they got incorporated into the Rajput fold, when did the tripolar struggle between the Cholas, Chera and Pandyas finally get broken in the South and who was the guy that established X Sultanate in the region of Y etc. etc. Basically Wikipedia becomes essential because words and names start merging in your head after a while.

The coming of the Mughals simplified things by a LARGE measure :p
Would you have a decent source for Indian history? As most, I have no knowledge at all prior to the Mughal and after the Mughal only through the lense of Great Companies...
 
Would you have a decent source for Indian history? As most, I have no knowledge at all prior to the Mughal and after the Mughal only through the lense of Great Companies...

Sure. I actually have an excellent source for Indian history right up till 1100 AD. A History of Ancient and Early Medieval India by Upinder Singh, published by Pearson. It pretty much details everything that happened in the sub-continent from the early paleolithic settling to the rise of the first Rajput kingdoms. Though the real bonus of the book is that it is easily navigable and you can pick up any certain period you want by simply going to the appropriate section.
 
Superb discussion going on.

Well my opinion is not much different from others here. Ghori should have been strangled the first time around when Prithviraj defeated him. Ghori's death would surely have plunged the Afghans into bickering and infighting. But I surely don't think that Prithviraj would go behind the disorganized Afghans much far, after all he had some issues to settle with his father- in - law. And tensions were so high that had there not been Ghori's invasion Jaychand Rathod would be fighting for his life.

Besides I don't think that Prithviraj would go behind the Afghans trusting the Solankis and Parmars to remain quiet behind his back. He would probably would have gone as far as subduing Sindh ;not more than that.
 
Superb discussion going on.

Well my opinion is not much different from others here. Ghori should have been strangled the first time around when Prithviraj defeated him. Ghori's death would surely have plunged the Afghans into bickering and infighting. But I surely don't think that Prithviraj would go behind the disorganized Afghans much far, after all he had some issues to settle with his father- in - law. And tensions were so high that had there not been Ghori's invasion Jaychand Rathod would be fighting for his life.

Besides I don't think that Prithviraj would go behind the Afghans trusting the Solankis and Parmars to remain quiet behind his back. He would probably would have gone as far as subduing Sindh ;not more than that.

Yeah man that's been one of my main points here and you've got it spot on.

Prithviraj was really unpopular with the Rajput prince does and clans for breaking status quo and uniting the Chauhan and Tomara realms in dynastic Union with an inheritance. To really comprehend it, it can be compared to the Union of Aragon and Castille that would happen in Spain later on in OTL. That's how significant it was for the Rajputs and how important it could have been for the sub-continent. This power is not something that goes unchallenged and I think that was one of the main reasons Jayachanda had allied with Ghori.

Previously in history nomadic tribes such as the Hunas, Kushans and Sakas had all merged into the folds of the caste system, hell, I'm pretty sure the Sisodiyas (perhaps one of the most esteemed dynasties in all of North India, so much so that even Shivaji claimed descent from them) of Mewar were descendant from Mihirakula's White Huns.

What they failed to realise was that Islam was a game changer, it literally got the chess board and threw all the pieces off it while adding new ones at the same time. The Rathores were waning in power and Jayachanda made a greedy bid for short term gain and was so foolish that his personal pride got in the way of him realising that his grandson would be one of the most powerful rulers north of the Vindhyas.

So that's what my original statement was; he needs at least half a year to deal with the shitstorm the rest of the Rajputs are causing and at least convince Jayachanda to lay down his arms or bring him to his knees at least. It should also be remembered that a lot of Ghori's crack infantry at Tarain #2 was from Jayachanda and since he loses Tarain Jayachanda really isn't in a position to negotiate terms.
 
Yeah man that's been one of my main points here and you've got it spot on.

Prithviraj was really unpopular with the Rajput prince does and clans for breaking status quo and uniting the Chauhan and Tomara realms in dynastic Union with an inheritance. To really comprehend it, it can be compared to the Union of Aragon and Castille that would happen in Spain later on in OTL. That's how significant it was for the Rajputs and how important it could have been for the sub-continent. This power is not something that goes unchallenged and I think that was one of the main reasons Jayachanda had allied with Ghori.

Previously in history nomadic tribes such as the Hunas, Kushans and Sakas had all merged into the folds of the caste system, hell, I'm pretty sure the Sisodiyas (perhaps one of the most esteemed dynasties in all of North India, so much so that even Shivaji claimed descent from them) of Mewar were descendant from Mihirakula's White Huns.

What they failed to realise was that Islam was a game changer, it literally got the chess board and threw all the pieces off it while adding new ones at the same time. The Rathores were waning in power and Jayachanda made a greedy bid for short term gain and was so foolish that his personal pride got in the way of him realising that his grandson would be one of the most powerful rulers north of the Vindhyas.

So that's what my original statement was; he needs at least half a year to deal with the shitstorm the rest of the Rajputs are causing and at least convince Jayachanda to lay down his arms or bring him to his knees at least. It should also be remembered that a lot of Ghori's crack infantry at Tarain #2 was from Jayachanda and since he loses Tarain Jayachanda really isn't in a position to negotiate terms.

I think you know how to look into people's minds. That is just what I thought.

Well never knew that Jaychand helped that mongrel Ghori to such an extent, like providing well trained infantry and all. Well then that greedy bastard surely deserved his fall.

Shivaji claiming descent from Sisodiyas?! Well I know that he claimed direct descent from the Yadavas(and that the Yadavas claimed to be protectors of Mathura does not go unnoticed by me) but Sisodiyas? Well guess I need to improve my knowledge quotient then. But why would he claim descent from them, what's the need for it? I still find it difficult to digest.

And yes killing Ghori the first time around would have been the best option anytime. Really Prithviraj needed to first sort out his problems with his father - in - law first (better annex that greedy man's domains, but I think that would cause even more troubles for him in the short term) and the Rajputs around him. Alliances like the ones Rajputs made with the Mughals, would essentially hand him over the entirety of North India and tremendous military power if he wants to go south or east anytime soon(besides it would have the side effect of deterring any foreign invasion of India from the North West; as well as make that haughty Rathod come to his knees without a single arrow fired).
 
Top