Prince of Prince, Build-a-Bride: Carlos I, King of Spain

In Prince of Peace, who shall King Carlos I of Spain marry in 1563?

  • Giovanna of Naples

    Votes: 3 9.4%
  • Maria of Austria

    Votes: 3 9.4%
  • Sophia of Bavaria

    Votes: 1 3.1%
  • Marie de Valois

    Votes: 2 6.3%
  • Antoinette of Lorraine (de Guise)

    Votes: 1 3.1%
  • Catherine of Navarre

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Anne Wittelsbach (Tudor), Princess of England and Duchess in Bavaria

    Votes: 1 3.1%
  • Mary Stuart, Queen of Scots

    Votes: 4 12.5%
  • Isabelle Stuart, Dame of Saint-Saturnin

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Jadwiga OR Constance of Poland

    Votes: 4 12.5%
  • Claudia of Savoy

    Votes: 13 40.6%

  • Total voters
    32
  • Poll closed .
Hey, all. :D
I'm working on PoP still (link the sig), but it's always quite slow. One thing is I tend to get quite distracted on my large family trees, including not only the great reigning houses of Tudor (well... Wittelsbach since Liz's marriage), Valois, the Aviz, but also the great German and Italian Princely families. I tend to match up many, but I've hit a stump regarding the son and successor of John III, King of Spain. He is the rather inactive king who is relatively more Castilian than his father Miguel and Manuel. He dies in 1563 and ends up being succeeded by a son in his early twenties. I had a few options charted out, but I keep changing my mind... so why not turn to AH.com to help me out in building a bride for Carlos I, King of Spain? ;) I will provide a few ideas in the topic and in poll, but feel free to suggest an open opinion. I tried to go back into some of the early modern Aviz matches to get an idea, but none caught my fancy, considering the late Aviz tended to marry Spanish Habsburg princesses. The continual marriage of Habsburg Archduchess not would make sense in this TL. Our fair Carlos is born in 1541 and becomes King circa 1563, 1564, in his early twenties. This is pretty important to my next chap, so discussion and votes are welcome!

Option 1: Giovanna of Naples
Pros: His cousin, daughter of the King of Naples. Would reinforce the alliance with Naples.
Cons: No huge political benefit or dowry; closely related. Their parents had the same father but different mothers, so would merely serve to introduce more Habsburg blood into the Spanish Kings through Giovanna's grandmother, Eleanor of Burgundy. Some also look down upon her as a match, stating her unfit to be a Queen of Spain because of the Medici blood that runs in her veins via her mother.

Option 2: Maria of Austria
Pros: Imperial connections, as she is a daughter of the King of Bohemia, a branch of the Imperial Habsburgs.
Cons: Minimal imperial connections. Spain has little need to cozy up to the King of Bohemia. She is also sickly; Carlos would lose her soon after the marriage.

Option 3: Sophia of Bavaria
Pros: New blood; a match with a German Princely family would satisfy any demands to satisfy 'purity' and an equal match.
Cons: Paltry dowry. Spain has virtually no need for influence in Germany, making such a match useless politically.

Option 4: Marie de Valois
Pros: French connections; a hefty dowry most likely. Heavily pressed by the Queen of Spain, Louise, also her aunt.
Cons: Close relations; she and Carlos are first cousins, her aunt being the present Queen of Spain. Spain's foreign policy has drifted away from the heavy handed repressions of François III's with the Guises to seek him to renew ties with England and Navarre.

Option 5: Antoinette of Lorraine
Pros: Daughter of the Duke of Guise, a scion of the House of Lorraine; a match that would be seeped in both French and Imperial approval, without wavering to both sides. The Emperor and the King of France both offer a grand dowry for the princess.
Cons: Of course a grand dowry would be offered to a lusty Spanish King when his future wife is thirty-two and counting. Antoinette has already expressed reservations leaving Paris for Madrid and has made many (un)acceptable demands, such a hefty pension and jointure to "befit" her status, and for the right to sojourn to Paris when she should please. Although her doctors boast that she is still capable of bearing a child, many whisper that she is barren. She is handsome at her age, but the king would likely tire of her quite quickly.

Option 6: Catherine of Navarre
Pros: Twin sister of the King of Navarre. Would reinforce Spanish relations with the Protestant Tripartite Alliance and curb French ambitions. Would give King Carlos a possible succession right to Navarre; a few border towns have been promised as a dowry, but little else.
Cons: Very little dowry. Despite the possible political benefits, there are a myriad of obstacles; the princess is a firm Calvinist and refuses to countenance conversion and demands the right for her and her household to hear their Calvinist services fully and freely; not within her apartments, thus demanding that the King shall furnish all his palaces with chapels for the use of his Queen; and much like the Princess of Lorraine, Catherine's financial demands are quite heavy and even exceed those of the Princess of Lorraine. The marriage in general would invoke ill feeling amongst the Spanish public and might allow Calvinism to seep further into the peninsula than it is already from Navarre. The Pope promises a dispensation for the marriage, but only on Catherine's conversion: Catherine refused to even consider the farcial match any further if the Pope is involved at all.

Option 7: Anne, Princess of England and Duchess in Bavaria
Pros: Daughter of the formidable English Queen and her German husband. Would provide a good connection to the Protestant Alliance. Elizabeth also promises a very suitable dowry. New blood.
Cons: In 1563, Anne is only a girl of 13; childbearing would be some years away. Dubious legitimacy. Although the Aviz have recognized Elizabeth's right (over the damnable Mary Tudor and her brood of French brats) to the throne, she is still a bastard in Catholic eyes. Elizabeth's dowry, while offered, is nothing compared to other princesses. Major religious issues over any negotiations; much like Catherine of Navarre, Queen Elizabeth demands the right of her daughter to the practice of the English faith in public. The Pope refuses any dispensation for such a match.

Option 8: Mary Stuart, Queen of Scots
Pros: Reigning Queen of Scotland. Would bring Scotland into Spanish orbit. Rumors speak that Mary wishes to marry a prince of great, royal blood.
Cons: Rumors are that she intends to marry her Stewart cousin, the Duke of Albany; even more scandalously, many whisper that she already cohorts with him the wedding is only a matter of when. Mary Stuart, like her cousin Elizabeth, is also a convinced Protestant. Her marriage with the dandy Henri of Orléans was disastrous; the Parliament and Kirk, also free of French domination, would not likely subject themselves to another foreign domination.

Option 9: Isabelle Stuart, Dame of Saint-Saturnin
Pros: Sister of the Duke of Albany, the supposed betrothed of Mary Stuart. Albany would offer a great dowry and allow Isabelle to upkept in state as Queen, not only from domestic sources in Spain, but from their extensive familial properties in France, such as Auvergne, Boulogne, and Saint-Saturnin. Would provide a connection to Scotland. New blood.
Cons: No great foreign policy connections from the match. Isabelle, like the new generation of Stuarts, is a Protestant. Yet many whisper that has Catholic sympathies, and would be appeased with merely the right to her faith in private.

Option 10: Jadwiga of Poland OR Constance of Poland
Pros:One if the daughter of the King of Poland; The other his niece. Catholic. Would induce new blood. Jadwiga is not beautiful, but is intelligent. For Constance, she is beautiful, not intelligent.
Cons: Paltry dowry. The Princess Jadwiga is not known for her beauty; there is also much scandal given her mother is Barbara Raditzwill, who maintains her Calvinist religion and was the King's mistress before marriage. The Princess Jadwiga is formally Catholic but not devout, expressing the need of the freedom for Protestant services to be held in her apartment for those in her suit who profess such faiths. Constance is prettier but quite dull; she has been raised at the staid household of her father; she is a devout Catholic, but as merely a granddaughter of a king, such a match would be almost as useless as one to Jadwiga.

Option 11: Claudia of Savoy
Pros: Catholic; daughter of the Duke of Savoy and his first wife. He is presently married to the Duchess of Viseu, the King of Spain's aunt. Very beautiful and vivacious. Would continue Spanish connections to Northern Italy. The Duchess of Viseu would grant a hefty dowry through her Portuguese Estates.
Cons: No major political gains besides continued influence in Northern Italy.
 
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Claudia sounds safest.

One of the Polish princesses (if I'm not misreading?) is possible, but not very rewarding.

Sophia is tempting speaking from my perspective, but entirely unrewarding politically.

Isabelle is like Sophia but even less desirable.

Antoinette...is too old. Maybe she can bear children, maybe not. But is this really the best bet?
 
Well, the fact that some of them were very closely related wouldn't be a problem at that time. In fact, it could be seen as an advantage, if the king wants a bride that wouldn't be seen as a political alliance between Spain and France or the "anti-French" kingdoms. It rather it show that the Aviz want to keep an independet path a take care only of their own business.

So, I would go first with Giovanna of Naples. The fact that she has Medici blood wouldn't be very important (I think they were already well stablished as a noble family by then), especially if her downry comes with Medici money as well.:p
Claudia of Savoy would be an interesting option too, but as you said I can't see much political advantage. Also, France might oppose it. But just for the fun I would like to see a second marriage with one of the Polish princesses, if his first choice dies without a male heir and the king is desperate for a son.;)
 
Out of the eleven candidates, I see only three that could be perfect brides for King Carlos I of Spain. Here is the list, in the order I would choose them:

1) Claudia of Savoy. Although there is not much political gains, it does increase Spain's influence in Italy. Plus, she seems like the princess who has the less drawbacks compared to other candidates. So, it's the safest solution.

2) Marie de Valois. The Aviz have a long tradition of ennemity with the Valois, both of them would probably like to avoid direct confrontation for now: a marriage could be a way of securing peace. It could also be part of François III's agenda: neutralizing Spain via a dynastic marriage could get him rid of one possible threat on his southern border. And if François III wishes to renew with England and Navarre, he might find an alternative solution. Question is: does Spain wants to normalize relations with France in your timeline?

3) Giovanna of Naples. Close blood-ties didn't really matter to royal families in those time: OTL François Ier of France had been married to his first cousin, Claude of France (daughter of Louis XII) because she was the titular Duchess of Britanny. Also OTL, Charles V had been married to Isabella of Portugal, his first cousin (their mothers were sisters).
The main drawback would be her reception at court, but it depends on Carlos I's character: he could just say "Shut up, I'm the King and I want her as my Queen." Of course, that depends heavily on how Carlos sees Giovanna...

I didn't consider Maria of Austria, Sophia of Bavaria and Isabella Stewart because they have too little importance. Not to mention that Isabella is Protestant.

I ranked out Mary of Scotland because it seemed to me you had already married her in Prince of Peace... Maybe I'm wrong, but I think you had mention a marriage treaty between the son of Mary, James, and one of Elizabeth's daughters. Of course, James might have been born when Mary was married to Henri, Duke of Orléans. In any case, I had already ranked her out because of her Protestantism. For the same reason, I ranked out Anne of England.
Catherine of Navarre could be an interesting idea for Spain to grab the small Kingdom of Navarre and complete unification. However, the Navarese are leading Protestant leaders in France and Catherine seem to zealous a Protestant to convert.

I didn't even bother considering Antoinette of Lorraine once I read she was 32... She's far too old on the "Princess Market" to be considered a bride by a King as young as Carlos. Plus, there are rumors she is sterile and that is a serious drawback when considering Royal Marriages.

As for the Polish Princesses, I ranked them out because there are both daughter of Barbara Raditzwill... The marriage between the King of Poland and his mistress resulted in a scandal if I recall correctly: royal families do not want mismatch.

It's just to be clear and explains the reasons why I voted Claudia of Savoy.
 
Thanks for all the replies ya'll. I greatly welcome some more opinions. Claudia or Giovanna certainly seem the most popular options and would probably be what would be taken. Right now Spain's relations are healing with England especially, as Spain and France are butting heads (not to mention, that damnable French King is sheltering privateers in Brazil to loot Spanish shipping!).

And Yorel: Yes, Mary Stuart is already married. She marries in 1563 though, so she would still be seen as an (sort of) option, but again, no one would accept it, and Mary herself certainly wouldn't. Her son, James, is born from her marriage with Albany. Hence the possibility of the marriage with Isabelle, but as you said, she is not a great match on the marriage market.

Spain right now is in her own splendid isolation; she is drawing closer to the Protestant powers but isn't going to openly break and attack France. They are later drawn into the conflicts, but at least right now could buy peace through a French marriage... but France would probably still keep harassing Spanish shipping. We have no Elizabethan Seadogs in this TL, but rather French ones. Not to say the English aren't going to sea, but are probably focused against the French...

As for the Polish, there are two. Jadwiga is Barbara's daughter, but Constance is Jadwiga's cousin. Her father is the King's brother, the Duke of Sandomierz, a pious Catholic. She was born to his marriage to a Russian princess brokered at the Peace of Sluck. But she's still a little young.
 
Out of the eleven candidates, I see only three that could be perfect brides for King Carlos I of Spain. Here is the list, in the order I would choose them:
Wait were we suppose to pick the one that we thought would be best or the one that we thought would be the most entertaining? :D
 
Always fun, exerting a direct influence on a timeline. Especially one I enjoy reading. Let's look at the candidates one by one:

Giovanna of Naples: Spanish/Iberian monarchs love to marry close relatives. If anything, as only his half-first cousin, she may not be close enough. The Medici blood would hardly be the first "impurities" introduced into the royal line, so I see no reason to object on those grounds. On the other hand, why waste a marriage on an already steadfast ally when you could gain goodwill and influence elsewhere?

Maria of Austria: A solid choice, politically speaking. She may be junior Imperial, but she's still Imperial. If she weren't so sickly, I'm sure she'd be a prime contender. But that rules her out. She's probably no Madeleine of Valois looks-wise, anyway.

Sophia of Bavaria: Too vanilla, no upside. No downside either, but still. She can always marry some other German Prince.

Marie of Valois: Being close relations makes it more likely, and she does come from a strong dynasty and has a hefty dowry attached. But souring Franco-Spanish relations could make her less appealing.

Antoinette of Lorraine: Past her prime, demanding, shrewish. Pass!

Catherine of Navarre: Uber-Protestant = No chance.

Anne of England: See directly above.

Mary, Queen of Scots: Now this is like voting for a political candidate who died before you could cast a ballot, isn't it? :p

Isabelle Stuart: She's the kind who marries other aristocrats, not royals.

Either Polish candidate: Not worth the time and trouble it would take, limited upside, substantial risk.

Claudia of Savoy: Catholic, from a strong dynasty with some pretty impressive claims, related by marriage, comes with a dowry including lands within your own demesne, and gives you greater influence in a contested sphere? We have a winner!

So there you have it. Claudia has my vote. Looking forward to the next update of the timeline itself :)
 
Well, a Spanish/Portuguese Scotland is something that I haven't seen in a TL before, so my choice is definitely obvious - if only to give that idea a try. :D (I'm sure that in this case, the Kirk could get away scot-free via an ATL Edict of Nantes, which could be called something like the Edict of Tomar or somesuch).
 
It would help if we knew what the groom is like. That would help make a decision.

He's much more active, unlike his father who was a very idle and boring man. Ambitious, intelligent, although not bookish; you're not going to catch him pouring over books. Bit of a short temper, quick to be slighted, although not very concerned when it comes to etiquette.
 
Giovana of Naples, Maria of Austria, Marie of Valois and Claudia of Savoy are possibilities.

Maria of Austria being sickly and maybe too few imperial connections will prevent her from being first choice.

Marie of Valois seems more interesting, a marriage could also help to strengthen or improve the French-Spanish relations.

Claudia of Savoy is safe, however the political situation might favor strenghtening ties with more important nations like France.

Though Giovana of Naples made top 4, I guess she only starts out as the back up.

Royal marriages often started already being discussed by the royal parents (often father) when the bride and groom to be were quite young. Often keeping a few options open until the final decision was made.

For instance Charles V finally ended up marrying Isabella of Portugal, but one of the reasons why Ferdinand and not Charles married Anna of Bohemia & Hungary was that Maximilian preferred to wait for a French (to repair relations) or English marriage. Mary Tudor (Henry VIII sister) seemed to have been a serious option, but she finally married the king of France; the other Mary Tudor was mentioned, but that would have meant that Charles had to wait a long time and he needed a heir. So the political landscape and the need for a heir will play a role.

This leaves two serious options, Marie of Valois and Claudia of Savoy; which one will be decided politically. If there aren't too many French Spanish tensions, then a marriage is more likely; however beyond a certain point it will become less likely.
Claudia is more safe, but could still be interesting.

BTW what are Spain's current and desired alliances and foreign policy goals?
 
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Kome said:
Wait were we suppose to pick the one that we thought would be best or the one that we thought would be the most entertaining? :D
Maybe a bit of both? :D:p

Anyway, I choosed to indicate my secondary choices because I thought DrakeRlugia might have found himself with a close result in the poll: he thus might have decided upon some of the voters' second or third choices ;)
Seems however that Claudia of Savoy will be the wife of Carlos I if things keeps up this way.
 
Giovana of Naples, Maria of Austria, Marie of Valois and Claudia of Savoy are possibilities.

Maria of Austria being sickly and maybe too few imperial connections will prevent her from being first choice.

Marie of Valois seems more interesting, a marriage could also help to strengthen or improve the French-Spanish relations.

Claudia of Savoy is safe, however the political situation might favor strenghtening ties with more important nations like France.

Though Giovana of Naples made top 4, I guess she only starts out as the back up.

Royal marriages often started already being discussed by the royal parents (often father) when the bride and groom to be were quite young. Often keeping a few options open until the final decision was made.

For instance Charles V finally ended up marrying Isabella of Portugal, but one of the reasons why Ferdinand and not Charles married Anna of Bohemia & Hungary was that Maximilian preferred to wait for a French (to repair relations) or English marriage. Mary Tudor (Henry VIII sister) seemed to have been a serious option, but she finally married the king of France; the other Mary Tudor was mentioned, but that would have meant that Charles had to wait a long time and he needed a heir. So the political landscape and the need for a heir will play a role.

This leaves two serious options, Marie of Valois and Claudia of Savoy; which one will be decided politically. If there aren't too many French Spanish tensions, then a marriage if more likely; however beyond a certain point it will become less likely.
Claudia is more safe, but could still be interesting.

BTW what are Spain's current and desired alliances and foreign policy goals?

Indeed, many matches are decided at youth, broken off, ect. Carlos probably had a betrothal or two, but unfortunately his father dies before he is married. Much like the OTL Philip III, we have a bachelor king who marries soon after his ascension: be it maybe an existing betrothal that is finally carried out or a new match that is opened up for his own benefits.

As for Spain's policy goals: she is desiring warmer relations with the Tripartite Protestant Alliance of England, Scotland, and Navarre. Primarily the later and the former. Spain and England smoothed over relations in the late 1540s, but lately French settlement in Meridionale (Brazil) has caused some issues, with French buccaneers using the banks as bases to plunder the Spanish Main, not to mention the fact that the François III had his son married to Mary Stuart briefly and attempted to impose them upon both Scotland AND England as French dominated, and Catholic states. Although Henri d'Orléans is dead, his younger brother is still hoisted as Queen Mary as the rightful King of England. This is something that Spain wants to avoid at all costs; they are currently in their own splendid isolation of sorts, with no alliances to any of the armed camps of Europe, but that can certainly change.
 
Maybe a bit of both? :D:p

Anyway, I choosed to indicate my secondary choices because I thought DrakeRlugia might have found himself with a close result in the poll: he thus might have decided upon some of the voters' second or third choices ;)
Seems however that Claudia of Savoy will be the wife of Carlos I if things keeps up this way.

What seems most entertaining and best in your opinion. They go hand in hand in my opinion. ;)
 
Claudia of Savoy. Everyone else's cons are too damning for a proper match.

Ah, I wouldn't say too damning, except perhaps for Catherine of Navarre and of course, Anne of England. Catherine is a proper Calvinist Princess, raised by her grandmother Renée; that is the OTL Duchess of Modena who caused quite a scandal. Here she's the virtual (female) head of the Huguenot movement, a sort of Catherine de Medici figure; I would say Mary Tudor would be much like a Catherine figure herself, but she's devoted her life to her children and when her husband died, he was succeeded by an adult. Not to say she isn't influential... but she's in her proper place as a consort: even her claim to England was never championed for her; it was just passed off on her sons.

As for Anne, Elizabeth may of found her love match and is a bit more radical in the vein of Edward's religious views, as well as decisive and willing to be a leader. And while she has no cult of virginity and never will in this world, I think she has no qualms using her children as pawns to secure alliances and or to scare France away. Like our OTL Liz, I suspect all of her children shall be betrothed on many occassions to many a Prince and Princess... with great demands that are eventually broke.

So, re: Claudia; I know I wrote that she's the daughter of the Duke's second wife, but I meant his first, Anne of France. His second wife is the Duchess of Viseu, who is Claudia's stepmother. So Claudia and Carlos are still cousins, as they share Franç Ier as grandfather; they also have King Manuel as a common ancestor. But as many have said, closeness is common in this period. In regards to Claudia's dowry: it was worded awkwardly, but essentially the Duchess of Viseu agrees that her Portuguese lands shall pass to Claudia and her heirs.

The Duchess of Viseu is the daughter of Miguel and his first wife, Ana of Navarre. Well educated and not bad looking, she was unfortunately left behind on the marriage market. Retiring to Portugal, she spent most of her days in Lisbon with a court of her own, vested with the Duchy of Viseu and a variety of estates, making her a very rich and well off woman. The timing finally came in 1549, when the Duke of Savoy lost his French wife in childbirth... and he only had two daughters. The King of Spain, seeking to renew ties, immediately offered the hand of his now thirty-six year old sister to the Duke of Savoy. He was disinclined towards the match, especially when he could have his pick of younger and certainly more beautiful Italian princesses. The win was the Duchesses' great estates that would give him access to great revenue. There was some resistance on the side of the Duchess, but she begrudgingly agreed, although the duo eventually got on quite well and she eventually bore him two sons, Charles Emmanuel, and Antonio. Although it has been agreed that Catarina shall allow her estates and lands to pass to Claudia and thence her heirs, it is generally agreed that Antonio shall be raised in Spain as a future Duke of Viseu, and granted his own properties, although nothing as extensive as what the Duchess had held.
 
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