Prince Henry of Prussia: The Rise of U-Boat.

BlondieBC

Banned
Richter von Manthofen said:
Sorry to hear that you don't continue - but as they say: De mortuis nihil, nisi bene!

This timeline was extremely well researched and I enjoyed to read it.

If its possible could you put it (without our posts) in the finished TLs section, so one could reread it some day ;)

THe outline for the future leaves out the BIG question - will there be a Round two a few decades down the line, or do we get Pax Germanica?

I think a round two is hard to avoid - especially if russia and the UK (and France) is left intact.
Click to expand...

I will move over the thread in a few weeks, time permitting.

I do see an era of few major wars, once nuclear weapons are developed. I guess we could call it Pax Germanica, but the people to really benefit from the peace will be the Balkans, A-H, and Russia. With a strong German block, there will never be a good time for Russia to start a war. It is not that Russia has no desire for revenge, it is that the combined armies that would oppose them are larger, and more powerful. I see France as too weak to start a war on its own. And the UK will have two more rounds that will be costly. And the UK will still have the bulk of its empire. And with the external threats, there will be lots of people who will love being British - Aussies, Canadians, Singapore, Hong Kong, parts of East Africa. It will be obvious to many people that being a part of the British Empire is better than being a part of the Japanese Empire. Or Joining Russia. India will be the main loss, but will remain friendly to the UK. Out of necessity.
 

wietze

this all will mean the following for the Netherlands:

no acute decolonisation like in otl.
java and sumatra might become independent (maybe not even as a whole island, but several states). the rest of the east-indies will stay with the netherlands and might move towards a dominion status, and maybe even later integrated in the netherlands as provinces.
Furthermore no alienating between netherlands and germany, so cooperation globally might be closer.
 

BlondieBC

Banned
wietze said:
this all will mean the following for the Netherlands:

no acute decolonisation like in otl.
java and sumatra might become independent (maybe not even as a whole island, but several states). the rest of the east-indies will stay with the netherlands and might move towards a dominion status, and maybe even later integrated in the netherlands as provinces.
Furthermore no alienating between netherlands and germany, so cooperation globally might be closer.
Click to expand...

I see the Dutch developing good relations with South Africa, and having a smaller trade zone associated with Germany. They will carefully keep themselves neutral since they know Germany can't save the Dutch colonies. I guess they will be looking for a balance of power in Asia or any arrangement where there are accept spheres of influence. Probably will eventually go nuclear too, have not though through that much.

On the big population areas, they either have to find buy in at least large elements of the local or risk losing them. In many ways, moving to a dominion status is win/win. The locals have some protection from Japan and the British Empire moving in, and they get some autonomy. The Netherlands get easier to administer locations and possible local taxes for military budgets. The problem for an independent Java is how to keep the UK and Japan out. If the Dutch hand of taxes and rules is light enough, why would Java leave?

I am not near as good on Dutch history as other areas, so this is bit blank to me.
 

wietze

java had a long history of trying to be independent, same applies for the northern part of sumatra, Atjeh.

But i am following on the thoiughts post WW-1 in the netherlands how long term decolonisation would look like.
Java and Sumatra were considered to become too big to hold on.
but it depends on a lot of factors. if dominion i would see java and sumatra become seperate dominions, while borneo, celebes and new guinea might get a direct status (like a province).

an indepedent java would still have all kinds of associations with the netherlands, and why would the uk or japan move in? they can get what they want easier by trade.
 

BlondieBC

Banned
wietze said:
java had a long history of trying to be independent, same applies for the northern part of sumatra, Atjeh.

But i am following on the thoiughts post WW-1 in the netherlands how long term decolonisation would look like.
Java and Sumatra were considered to become too big to hold on.
but it depends on a lot of factors. if dominion i would see java and sumatra become seperate dominions, while borneo, celebes and new guinea might get a direct status (like a province).

an indepedent java would still have all kinds of associations with the netherlands, and why would the uk or japan move in? they can get what they want easier by trade.
Click to expand...

I see your point, it could easily end that way. Either an independent Java in some broad association with the Netherlands or a dominion. And the provinces make sense since it protects the smaller islands who may lack the power to escape the Netherlands orbit. Germany would of course support the Dutch, but they probably don't provide any aid that is too direct. IMO, the UK will have a red line on German bases in the Dutch East Indies.

And I can see the UK being ok with it. The Dutch are effectively sharing the burden with the UK on containing Japan. And Japan can view the Dutch East Indies as a partial buffer between them and the main UK colonies.
 

MUC

With the German lead in subs and guided missiles plus nuclear weapons, I see a preemptive cruise missile attack against the US taking shape.
And who is to stop the Germans from nuclear carpet bombing Great Britain, especially since radar will appear in the 50s, allowing the Germans to pull off a stunt like this with very little warning time for the British?
 

Keith Robertsson

I understand what's happening. Keeping this particular timeline going indefinitely would get boring. However, maybe you can start a "son of" timeline set 30 or forty years into this one's future.
 

BlondieBC

Banned
Keith Robertsson said:
I understand what's happening. Keeping this particular timeline going indefinitely would get boring. However, maybe you can start a "son of" timeline set 30 or forty years into this one's future.
Click to expand...

I will think about that. Since I was planning a few short wars, maybe it would work just to setup the forces before the war and do the key battles. Part of the issue was that doing all the navy updates for 8+ navies and doing the basic time line stuff is hugely time consuming.
 

Keith Robertsson

Okay, make that sons and nephews of this timeline, instead of one glorious TL.
BlondieBC said:
I will think about that. Since I was planning a few short wars, maybe it would work just to setup the forces before the war and do the key battles. Part of the issue was that doing all the navy updates for 8+ navies and doing the basic time line stuff is hugely time consuming.
Click to expand...
 
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