Primavera d'Italia: War, Love and Revolution
- Thread starter Tarabas
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That's a distinct possibility. Regarding railways, thanks to Ferdinand's trip to Britain, Piedmont is already ahead of schedule, so much that partially the railway network has been put to good use in the first phases of the war, just on a lesser scale than the OTL war of 1859. Loved the tip regarding Genova! That would be a really nice thing to see.
I was really impressed by the special locomotive which had to be designed to cope with the 3.6% slope leading to the Giovi pass: the "Mastodon of the Giovi" .
ITTL it will certainly be designed and built by Ansaldo, and possibly even earlier than OTL (say by late1849 instead of 1851). It could even become an export item, for railways in mountainous areas.
Another thing which is going to come by the end of the 1850s is the second railway connection to Genova (the so called "second passage", which OTL was built only in the late 1880s). The port of Genoa will have to be modernized and expanded for sure, and it would be lovely to see early steam cranes on rails.
Can we assume that the will be designed by Ansaldo by mid 1850s, maybe based on an intuition of Ferdinando?
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I've got a question about the Republic of Venice and its oversee territories... Will they include Cattaro? Also in 1797 they still owned the Ionian islands. Given that they were later occupied by the British (and in 1848 they revolted to join Greece), will be the fate of local italian/venetian communities a little different? Like a stronger Italy providing support for Greek irredentism may help them? Or the stronger Italy will make a migration to the "motherland" more likely?
Cattaro is definitely joining the Republic of Saint Mark; the Venetian Navy has already intervened there. As for the Ionian Islands, I would say that the immigration of the Venetian-speaking population to Italy (starting from Cattaro) is very likely. Probably the friendly relationships the Italians have with the Brits may end up with some rights or protection for the Italian population, and that's about it. Note that the fact that the Adriatic is effectively an Italian lake makes up for the strategic value of the Ionian Islands, so I would say that the Italians will pursue friendly relationship with the Greeks and the the Brits.
Another item in my mental check-list ( sorry if it's too bothersome)
I've read the Italian was the official language of Corsica until 1859. The timing of this makes me think that the birth of Italy made France a bit worried about any cultural attachment to the new nation. I wonder if this will happen sooner ITTL (to boot it would be a more independet neighbour which owes them nothing).
The only counterargument to an accelleration to this is that Italy (which from what I gather won't stomp out French in Savoy) may ask for a bit of qui pro quo (it could lead to a bit of friction between the two countries).
To be clear I'm not advocating for any form of "irredentism", just wondering about the cultural implications.
sorry if it's too bothersome)I've read the Italian was the official language of Corsica until 1859. The timing of this makes me think that the birth of Italy made France a bit worried about any cultural attachment to the new nation. I wonder if this will happen sooner ITTL (to boot it would be a more independet neighbour which owes them nothing).
The only counterargument to an accelleration to this is that Italy (which from what I gather won't stomp out French in Savoy) may ask for a bit of qui pro quo (it could lead to a bit of friction between the two countries).
To be clear I'm not advocating for any form of "irredentism", just wondering about the cultural implications.
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It's no bother at all: @Tarabas and I always welcome any question which can contribute to a better understanding of the world we are trying to create.Another item in my mental check-list (
I've read the Italian was the official language of Corsica until 1859. The timing of this makes me think that the birth of Italy made France a bit worried about any cultural attachment to the new nation. I wonder if this will happen sooner ITTL (to boot it would be a more independet neighbour which owes them nothing).
The only counterargument to an accelleration to this is that Italy (which from what I gather won't stomp out French in Savoy) may ask for a bit of qui pro quo (it could lead to a bit of friction between the two countries).
To be clear I'm not advocating for any form of "irredentism", just wondering about the cultural implications.
The timing of the switch between Italian and French as official language in Corsica is a bit suspicious, but officially the decision was made by the Cour de cassation on 4 August 1859, based on an ordinance of king Francis I in 1539, which required that all official acts in France had to be in French language, and was also consistent with the "civic nationalism" which inspired France since the revolution of 1789. Even more suspicious is the decree of Napoleon III by which the equivalence between French and Italian university degrees was ended (which in my opinion was even more effective in boosting the use of French not just in Corsica but also in Nice and Savoy).
Why Napoleon le petit decided to take this approach, just after he unilaterally decided to sign an armistice at Villafranca, is unclear: it is quite possibly a jerk reaction when he realized that his overly optimistic plan to turn Italy into a French-dominated league of three or four states failed after the insurrections in the Cispadanian duchies and the Papal Legations, or just as a sop to the French countryside's distaste for the Italian war.
We are however describing a very different timeline, and the concept of Irredenta is not going to be born, since the "natural borders" will be reached in a single fell swoop, instead of poisoning the political scene for 70 years as they did IOTL.
There was no significant participation of Corsicans to the Italian national struggle in OTL 1848 and 1859, and there is no significant participation ITTL 1848.
Since it doesn't look there is any overwhelming desire of the Corsicans to join the Italian Confederation (at least in 1848), it makes sense to stick to the status quo, which is not too bad: Italian is the official language in Corsica, and Pisa (not Genoa, for obvious reasons) is the preferred university for Corsicans.
I would assume that a quid-pro-quo would be quite acceptable for France and Italy: French remains the official language in Savoy, and Italian in Corsica; the equivalence of university degrees is also confirmed.
Two weeks have passed since the posting of the last Interlude dedicated to Rome (Interlude 40: Confutatis Maledictis) , and @Tarabas and I apologize for having left you with a cliffhanger for so long. There are reasons for this delay: the most obvious has to do with the demands of RL, but it was also necessary to delve more deeply into the political situation in Rome, and decide the best and most credible way to narrate the events in Rome during the momentous month of April 1848.
We hope you will be happy to know that the preparation is mostly completed, and the story is ready to be told.
In this particular case, we are going to change the format: the Roman events will be narrated as entries in the diaries of Count Terenzio Mamiani della Rovere (a liberal and federalist patriot born in Pesaro in 1799, who participated in the insurrections of 1831 and after their failure was condemned to exile by the Papal Government. Mamiani spent most of his exile in Paris, where he became friend of Princess Belgioioso, prof. Ferrari and Signor Gioberti as well as of other Italian expatriates there. Mamiani was allowed to return to Rome in September 1847, in occasion of the death of his brother, and became involved in the Roman politics. His (fictional) diary gives a good perspective both of the events and of his political collocation).
The events of April 1848 will be under the title "Facilis Descensus Averno" [which is usually translated as "the road to Avernus is easy" or even "the road to Hell is smooth"] but it does not portend disasters or chaos. The quote is from Book VI of the Aeneid, by Vergil. Aeneas has reached Italy fleeing from the fall of Troy, and has landed near Naples. Not being sure what he has to do, he seeks enlightenment from the Sybil of Cuma, a priestess of the Apollonian oracle there. The Sybil leads him down the slopes of lake Avernus, a volcanic lake near to Cuma which was traditionally believed to be the door to the Underworld. After entering the Underworld, Aeneas meets the shadow of his father Anchises, who reveals to him the future history of Rome (without even saying "Spoiler Alert" ). After this revelation, Anchises leads Aeneas and the Sybil to the "eburnean door" which gives access to the world of the living, and in just a few more verses Aeneas is back on his ship, sailing towards Latium. It looks like that the road from Hell is even smoother than the road to Hell , and this is the way the title applies to the events in Rome: there is going to be a swift descent into chaos, and a swifter recovery.
Since there are many things to be narrated in this chapter, it will be broken down into four sub-chapters:
We hope you will be happy to know that the preparation is mostly completed, and the story is ready to be told.
In this particular case, we are going to change the format: the Roman events will be narrated as entries in the diaries of Count Terenzio Mamiani della Rovere (a liberal and federalist patriot born in Pesaro in 1799, who participated in the insurrections of 1831 and after their failure was condemned to exile by the Papal Government. Mamiani spent most of his exile in Paris, where he became friend of Princess Belgioioso, prof. Ferrari and Signor Gioberti as well as of other Italian expatriates there. Mamiani was allowed to return to Rome in September 1847, in occasion of the death of his brother, and became involved in the Roman politics. His (fictional) diary gives a good perspective both of the events and of his political collocation).
The events of April 1848 will be under the title "Facilis Descensus Averno" [which is usually translated as "the road to Avernus is easy" or even "the road to Hell is smooth"] but it does not portend disasters or chaos. The quote is from Book VI of the Aeneid, by Vergil. Aeneas has reached Italy fleeing from the fall of Troy, and has landed near Naples. Not being sure what he has to do, he seeks enlightenment from the Sybil of Cuma, a priestess of the Apollonian oracle there. The Sybil leads him down the slopes of lake Avernus, a volcanic lake near to Cuma which was traditionally believed to be the door to the Underworld. After entering the Underworld, Aeneas meets the shadow of his father Anchises, who reveals to him the future history of Rome (without even saying "Spoiler Alert"
). After this revelation, Anchises leads Aeneas and the Sybil to the "eburnean door" which gives access to the world of the living, and in just a few more verses Aeneas is back on his ship, sailing towards Latium. It looks like that the road from Hell is even smoother than the road to Hell , and this is the way the title applies to the events in Rome: there is going to be a swift descent into chaos, and a swifter recovery.Since there are many things to be narrated in this chapter, it will be broken down into four sub-chapters:
- Noi semo l'assertori der libbero pensiero adesso er cielo è nero ma poi se schiarirà! Viva la libertà! (29 March-11 April)
- Qui nun se move foglia che 'r popolo non voglia chi vo' regna cor boia, da boia morirà! Viva la libertà! (12-16 April)
- Semo tirannicidi, s'armamo de cortello e giù dal piedistallo lì famo ruzzica'! Viva la libertà! (17April)
- E' l'omo che propone, ma 'r popolo dispone: er cane c'ha 'r padrone ma l'omo nun ce l'ha! Viva la libertà, viva la libertà! (18-21 April)
- We are the proponents of free thought: now the sky is dark but it will lighten up! Freedom forever!
- No leaf will fall against the people's will: who reigns by the hangman, with the hangman will die! Freedom forever!
- We are killer of tyrants: let's get our knives and push them down from their pedestal! Freedom forever!
- A man can propose, but only the people can order: a dog has a master, no master for a man! Freedom forever! Freedom forever!
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And instead Virgilio took Dante through the longer scenic route like any other touristThe events of April 1848 will be under the title "Facilis Descensus Averno" [which is usually translated as "the road to Avernus is easy" or even "the road to Hell is smooth"] but it does not portend disasters or chaos. The quote is from Book VI of the Aeneid, by Vergil. Aeneas has reached Italy fleeing from the fall of Troy, and has landed near Naples. Not being sure what he has to do, he seeks enlightenment from the Sybil of Cuma, a priestess of the Apollonian oracle there. The Sybil leads him down the slopes of lake Avernus, a volcanic lake near to Cuma which was traditionally believed to be the door to the Underworld. After entering the Underworld, Aeneas meets the shadow of his father Anchises, who reveals to him the future history of Rome (without even saying "Spoiler Alert"
You're wrong, my friend. Dante paid extra for the longer route because he had a long list of people he didn't like and wanted to make sure they were in Hell and suffering
Remarkably, some of those people were alive and well at the time he wrote the Commedia.
Well, the titles of the sub-chapters can give you an idea of what is happening in each one of them. In particular, the 17 is when all wheels come loose, and the days just after are remembered as the "Jacobin Days of April".
This covers Rome. Naples will chug along more slowly, also because there will be no outside intervention there, as there has not been in Rome.
The Neapolitans will have to make up their minds, and choose which kind of future they want.
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What makes you think that time in Hell is synchronised with time on Earth?
Well, In Dante's case it is synchronised; the two living people he puts in hell are traitors, and Dante invent the explanation that the soul of a traitor, some time, depart the body which get inhabited by a demon until the time set for that person to die; In another istance he predicts the damnation of a person alive at the moment of the supposed journey (1300) exploiting the ability of the damned to see the future.
Yeah as a good Tuscan man he really really took any grudge very seriously
His best known work is half self-insert fan fiction, half hip-hop diss track, really.
I might be a bad person, but all this discussion inevitably makes me think of this iconic scene...His best known work is half self-insert fan fiction, half hip-hop diss track, really.
I might be a bad person, but all this discussion inevitably makes me think of this iconic scene...
Can you imagine its TTL version?
Tuscans might still get a headstart in confederal media since they already speak natively the language standard Italian is based on but, since the capital will be in Verona, Venetians might join them - maybe it's because of the influence of centuries of trade on the language, but Venetian is much closer to standard Italian than the Gallo-Italic languages surrounding it.
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