Mostly talking about Tuscany, Piedmont and Venice. I get it that for new duchies or republics some new creations are in order, but for already established states (or states that had existed not too long before the start of the timeline, like Venice) I would have preferred the flag before 1848 (with the tricolour being the common confederal flag). I am just a fan of the old Venetian and Tuscan flags.

I'd personally agree with @Flavius Iulius Nepos on Venetian Republic only. The San Marco banner is still in memory and I'd proudly wave it as a half Venetian ;)

Sorry, guys, but, as I said before, the flags were chosen IOTL and should be even more obvious ITTL (when they are chosen before there is a proposal for the Italian Confederation). I fear you underestimate the patriotic feeling of 1848, and the appeal of the Tricolore.
 
Sorry, guys, but, as I said before, the flags were chosen IOTL and should be even more obvious ITTL (when they are chosen before there is a proposal for the Italian Confederation). I fear you underestimate the patriotic feeling of 1848, and the appeal of the Tricolore.

For sure, it was just a remark not a critique ;)
 

Arrix85

Donor
I really look forward to see the map of North-East Italy post-war. Really curious about the borders there (It's not really clear to me if Fiume and Trieste will border each other with Venetian Istria "cut off" from the Gorizia district.
 
I really look forward to see the map of North-East Italy post-war. Really curious about the borders there (It's not really clear to me if Fiume and Trieste will border each other with Venetian Istria "cut off" from the Gorizia district.
First of all, the territory of the Free Cities of Trieste and Fiume will be quite limited. Trieste will have a border with Venetian Istria (more or less coastal Istria, from Capodistria in the N-W to Albiona in the S-E, and a border with the County of Gorizia, which includes the Margraviate of Istria (i.e. the interior of the Istrian Peninsula).
The eastern border of the County of Gorizia is a bit more tricky: as a minimum it will run along the Alpine water shed, but at the moment troops of the CI are entrenched on the west bank of Idria river, in Western Slovenia, and there is something to be said about gaining a more secure border, and increasing the strategic depth on the eastern border.
Postumia has already been occupied by De Sonnaz's troops, and will certainly stay in Italian hands, since it is going to be a very important junction on the Vienna-Lubiana-Trieste railway.
Fiume shall have a border just with Croatia, and it makes probably sense to give this Free City a larger hinterland. In any case there are Italian troops and naval assets very close, and they would be in a position to intervene quickly, if there is a need. It might be possible to extend Fiume territory towards Abbazia, but I don't think it's really necessary.

Unfortunately, neither @Tarabas nor I are any good at map making, so a map of the N-E border is not likely to come up any soon.
Unless there is any volunteer for this task, I mean ;);)
 
First of all, the territory of the Free Cities of Trieste and Fiume will be quite limited. Trieste will have a border with Venetian Istria (more or less coastal Istria, from Capodistria in the N-W to Albiona in the S-E, and a border with the County of Gorizia, which includes the Margraviate of Istria (i.e. the interior of the Istrian Peninsula).
The eastern border of the County of Gorizia is a bit more tricky: as a minimum it will run along the Alpine water shed, but at the moment troops of the CI are entrenched on the west bank of Idria river, in Western Slovenia, and there is something to be said about gaining a more secure border, and increasing the strategic depth on the eastern border.
Postumia has already been occupied by De Sonnaz's troops, and will certainly stay in Italian hands, since it is going to be a very important junction on the Vienna-Lubiana-Trieste railway.
Fiume shall have a border just with Croatia, and it makes probably sense to give this Free City a larger hinterland. In any case there are Italian troops and naval assets very close, and they would be in a position to intervene quickly, if there is a need. It might be possible to extend Fiume territory towards Abbazia, but I don't think it's really necessary.

Unfortunately, neither @Tarabas nor I are any good at map making, so a map of the N-E border is not likely to come up any soon.
Unless there is any volunteer for this task, I mean ;);)
More than available for maps, it's my trade ;)
 
A teaser to introduce next interlude, which deal with the political situation in Naples.
Enjoy! :) :)

"Something is Rotten in the State of Naples"

Napoli, 23 April 1848

"From time to time, two problems manage to solve each other" Leopoldo di Borbone mused looking out towards the magnificent gardens of the Villa Reale of Capua "My brother Ferdinando needed some convincing, before seeing reason, but now he is off to Gaeta to celebrate Easter with His Exiled Holiness and at least I am free of his continuous lamentations and accusations, for a time at least. Today I can take my nephew Francesco for a ride: he will be happy to be away from his bully of a half-brother for a few hours, and I will have an opportunity to start dropping some seeds in his mind. Francesco may not be the best foundation stone on which to build the future of the dynasty, but at least he appears to be intelligent and studious enough, and his age makes him pliable. There will be time enough to help him grow a backbone, the more so if I can keep him from the coterie of priests on whom his step-mother dotes."

Gaeta, 23 April 1848
Ferdinando di Borbone had been very angry when he got the news that the Pope had fled Rome's insurrection, and almost casually ended up in Gaeta, but his anger had not lasted long. He was a dutiful son of Holy Church, and he felt guilty for having criticized the decision of His Holiness, even if it had happened in private and only his brother Leopoldo had been present. Now he felt better for having taken Leopoldo's advice to go to Gaeta and personally greet the Pope. Pio IX was a great and holy man, there was no doubt about that, and he felt honored that the Pope had chosen to search protection from the Jacobins by taking refuge in Gaeta. His Holiness had assured him that it would be for a short time only, and he would leave Gaeta soon to avoid creating additional troubles for the kingdom of Two Sicilies, but Ferdinando had rushed to convince him that the presence of the Pope would be a blessing, rather than an aggravation, and that His Holiness was welcome to stay in the kingdom as long as he needed or wished.
Ferdinando almost choked on his words when he was forced to admit that for the time being there was no possibility to send Neapolitan troops to castigate the revolutionaries and take back Rome for the Holy Father: the unrest in Naples, the insurrections in Abruzzi and Calabria, as well as the the secession of Sicily forced him to wait before committing to such an undertaking, but soon the swords of the Kingdom of Two Sicilies would be drawn in defense of the Temporal Power of the Pope: just give time to the political horizon to clear a bit. Ferdinando's eyes became a bit moist, remembering how in the end His Holiness had relented, and promised to remain in Gaeta, under the protection of the House of Borbone.

Napoli, 7 May 1848
Carlo Troya, Prime Minister of the kingdom of Two Sicilies since the beginning of April, had been summoned to the Royal Palace in Naples to report on the riots which had happened the day before, during the ceremonies for the feast of San Gennaro: the blood of the saint had failed to liquefy, always a bad omen for the populace of Naples, and the lazzaroni had rioted. It had not been much of a riot, and the Guardia Nazionale had easily kept it under control, but the king was clearly upset by the news. Carlo Troya was pretty sure that the riot found its roots more in the failure on the part of the king to distribute the traditional Easter donations to the poorest classes, rather than in the botched miracle, but it was pretty clear that the king would not have been willing to listen to any such explanation: the summon had been made to allow Ferdinando to vent his dissatisfaction on his hapless Prime Minister, after all.
Another sore point which came up during the discussion was the planned inauguration of the first Constitutional Parliament : it would happen on 15 May, barely a week away, but the king had been very reluctant to discuss any of the still unsolved issues. The first elections to the Lower House of Parliament had returned a clear majority for liberals and democrats, to the chgrin of the king, and there were rumors in plenty that the elected Representatives were not going to accept without protest the constitutional set-up granted by Ferdinando on 29 January 1848, since it gave the king and the House of Peers a clear upper hand in all legislative matters. Carlo Troya wished to reach a compromise before the inauguration, but for the time being neither the king nor the elected Representatives would budge from their positions.
 
Sorry, guys, but, as I said before, the flags were chosen IOTL and should be even more obvious ITTL (when they are chosen before there is a proposal for the Italian Confederation). I fear you underestimate the patriotic feeling of 1848, and the appeal of the Tricolore.
No need to be sorry, mine was just a note of my own preferences. You and Tarabas should definitely take the story where you, not the readers, wish to.
 
No need to be sorry, mine was just a note of my own preferences. You and Tarabas should definitely take the story where you, not the readers, wish to.
When @Tarabas and I started to write this TL, the primary goal was certainly to explore new roads in the history of Italian unification, but we also wanted to write a fiction which would be enjoyable for the readers.
This means that to ignore the wishes of said readers would become a self defeating exercise: it doesn't mean that we are going to accept each and any suggestion, in particular where these suggestions would affect or put in jeopardy the ultimate goal of this intellectual exercise, which has always been to demonstrate that the last couple of centuries of Italian history were not cast in stone, and there were critical events (like the insurrections of 1848, which might have turned out quite differently, with minor changes to the historical events. Even better, to demonstrate that many of the participants to that fateful event might have been make a big difference, if only they had been a little more lucky or if the hand of cards they were dealt had been just a little better (and by the same token, a number of the so-called "fathers-of-the-nation" got a much better press than they deserved ;)).

Anyway, we are not tone-deaf to suggestions, and we are usually quite happy if it is possible to work them in the thread of the TL: an example was the compromise to have both Venice and Padua as joint capitals of the Republic of St. Mark.

I think I can suggest another workable compromise for the flag of the RSM: the tricolore with the winged lion stands, but also the traditional Venetian flag with the winged lion will survive. It will become the personal flag of the doge of the republic, as the embodiment of the linkage of the new Republic with the ancient and glorious one.
 
Narrative Interlude #55 "Something is Rotten in the State of Naples"
"Something is Rotten in the State of Naples"

Napoli, 23 April 1848

"From time to time, two problems manage to solve each other" Leopoldo di Borbone mused looking out towards the magnificent gardens of the Villa Reale of Capua "My brother Ferdinando needed some convincing, before seeing reason, but now he is off to Gaeta to celebrate Easter with His Exiled Holiness and at least I am free of his continuous lamentations and accusations, for a time at least. Today I can take my nephew Francesco for a ride: he will be happy to be away from his bully of a half-brother for a few hours, and I will have an opportunity to start dropping some seeds in his mind. Francesco may not be the best foundation stone on which to build the future of the dynasty, but at least he appears to be intelligent and studious enough, and his age makes him pliable. There will be time enough to help him grow a backbone, the more so if I can keep him from the coterie of priests on whom his step-mother dotes."

Gaeta, 23 April 1848
Ferdinando di Borbone had been very angry when he got the news that the Pope had fled Rome's insurrection, and almost casually ended up in Gaeta, but his anger had not lasted long. He was a dutiful son of Holy Church, and he felt guilty for having criticized the decision of His Holiness, even if it had happened in private and only his brother Leopoldo had been present. Now he felt better for having taken Leopoldo's advice to go to Gaeta and personally greet the Pope. Pio IX was a great and holy man, there was no doubt about that, and he felt honored that the Pope had chosen to search protection from the Jacobins by taking refuge in Gaeta. His Holiness had assured him that it would be for a short time only, and he would leave Gaeta soon to avoid creating additional troubles for the kingdom of Two Sicilies, but Ferdinando had rushed to convince him that the presence of the Pope would be a blessing, rather than an aggravation, and that His Holiness was welcome to stay in the kingdom as long as he needed or wished.
Ferdinando almost choked on his words when he was forced to admit that for the time being there was no possibility to send Neapolitan troops to castigate the revolutionaries and take back Rome for the Holy Father: the unrest in Naples, the insurrections in Abruzzi and Calabria, as well as the the secession of Sicily forced him to wait before committing to such an undertaking, but soon the swords of the Kingdom of Two Sicilies would be drawn in defense of the Temporal Power of the Pope: just give time to the political horizon to clear a bit. Ferdinando's eyes became a bit moist, remembering how in the end His Holiness had relented, and promised to remain in Gaeta, under the protection of the House of Borbone.

Napoli, 7 May 1848
Carlo Troya, Prime Minister of the kingdom of Two Sicilies since the beginning of April, had been summoned to the Royal Palace in Naples to report on the riots which had happened the day before, during the ceremonies for the feast of San Gennaro: the blood of the saint had failed to liquefy, always a bad omen for the populace of Naples, and the lazzaroni had rioted. It had not been much of a riot, and the Guardia Nazionale had easily kept it under control, but the king was clearly upset by the news. Carlo Troya was pretty sure that the riot found its roots more in the failure on the part of the king to distribute the traditional Easter donations to the poorest classes, rather than in the botched miracle, but it was pretty clear that the king would not have been willing to listen to any such explanation: the summon had been made to allow Ferdinando to vent his dissatisfaction on his hapless Prime Minister, after all.
Another sore point which came up during the discussion was the planned inauguration of the first Constitutional Parliament : it would happen on 15 May, barely a week away, but the king had been very reluctant to discuss any of the still unsolved issues. The first elections to the Lower House of Parliament had returned a clear majority for liberals and democrats, to the chgrin of the king, and there were rumors in plenty that the elected Representatives were not going to accept without protest the constitutional set-up granted by Ferdinando on 29 January 1848, since it gave the king and the House of Peers a clear upper hand in all legislative matters. Carlo Troya wished to reach a compromise before the inauguration, but for the time being neither the king nor the elected Representatives would budge from their positions.

Napoli, 11 May 1848
The Representatives, spurred by the Mazzinians among them (1), had declared that the oath of allegiance to king and constitution had to make clear that the Lower House was entitled to discuss and vote whichever modification to the Constitution they required necessary. It was not something the king would be willing to accept, and just four days prior to the planned inauguration the stalemate was continuing.

Napoli, 12 May 1848
To further complicate the issue, the king released on Friday the list of the Peers appointed to the Upper House: there was no more than a handful of liberals among them, and the powers given to the Peers were the most important issue the Representatives wanted to modify.
The Representatives already arrived in Naples retaliated by sitting in assembly in the Convent of Monte Oliveto (the Parliament would be convened in the nearby church of San Lorenzo). While different formulations of the oath of allegiance were exchanged between the government and the rump parliament, the Representatives also voted a motion, to be sent to the Government, asking that no troops would be allowed in the city on Inauguration Day, that the Guardia Nazionale would be responsible for keeping law and order and also that the city's strongpoints should be handed over to the same Guardia Nazionale.
The confrontation continued over Saturday and Sunday, without reaching any common ground.
A compromise version of the oath of allegiance was finally, and grudgingly, agreed during the night between 14 and 15 May, but at this point in time wild rumors were abounding all over the city, and the first barricades were already in place.

Napoli, 15 May 1848
The first act of Parliament was to send a proclamation to the Guardia Nazionale, thanking them for defending constitutional liberties but also asking to dismantle the barricades. It was not obeyed: no barricade was dismantled, and the Guardia Nazionale was conspicuously manning them.
The tense confrontation abruptly erupted into fighting around 10 in the morning.
Two Representatives, sent to the Royal Palace to further negotiate, were arrested. A little later, field guns were moved to the esplanade in front of the Royal Palace, and two officers were sent to negotiate the removal of the large barricade in Via Toledo, near to Palazzo Cirella: they were shot while approaching the insurgents, and all hell came loose Field artillery was rolled forward to cannonade the barricades, and the Swiss mercenary regiments were sent to clear the streets. The fighting raged for most of the day, initially concentrated around Palazzo Cirella (it belonged to the Catalano Gonzaga(2), who were strongly leaning toward the liberals): after a short but vicious siege, the doors were broken, and the enraged soldiery sacked the palace, killing all armed people. Then the fight spread to the old city, barricade after barricade falling under the assaults and the volleys of the Swiss companies. The last act was the attack against the convent of Monte Oliveto, where the Representatives had repaired. The convent was cannonaded, before an ultimatum was delivered: Parliament had been dissolved by the king, and all the people holed up in the convent were ordered to surrender. Just a few die-hards chose to stand to the last man, and most of the Representatives bowed to the ultimatum. The fight was almost over, even if during the night bands of lazzaroni sacked the houses of known liberals.
At sundown, Carlo Troya brought to the king the news that the order had been restored, and offered the resignation of his government : it was refused

Leopoldo, count of Siracusa, was watching the fighting from a tower of the Royal Palace: he stood there for hours, without moving, an inscrutable expression on his face. Finally he left, murmuring: “The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure. (5)”
Gen. Guglielmo Pepe had refused the command of the operations to clear the barricades, and had managed to keep most of the Neapolitan regiments on the side lines (he wrote in his diary the following lines: "I respectfully pointed out to the king that the Neapolitan regiments might balk at the order to fire on fellow Neapolitans, and they were better kept to ensure the safety of the Royal Palace. Quite true, but I should have led these regiments to fight for freedom, and I failed to do so: this stain will always mar my honor as a soldier."
The troops sent to restore order were commanded by gen. Raffaele Carrascosa, a notorious reactionary and a sworn enemy of Pepe, and only the Swiss regiments were tasked with assaulting the barricades, supported by the field artillery.

Napoli, 16 May 1848
King Ferdinando sacked Troya (3), and charged Gennaro Spinelli Barile (4), principe di Cariati, with the task of forming a new ministry.

Footnotes
  1. The most outspoken Mazzinians were Giovanni La Cecilia and Pietro Mileti. The latter after the failure of the insurrection, went to Calabria to foment a revolt there: he died in battle in July 1848. The former also managed to escape Naples, and went in exile to England and France. He never managed to gain any importance among the patriots, and Cavour had a very poor opinion not just of his political skills but also of his personal honesty.
  2. Don Pasquale Catalano Gonzaga, duke of Cirelli, his two sons, Luigi and Clemente, and his brother Pietro were captured, and imprisoned on a ship in the harbor. They managed to escape, with the help of Guglielmo Pepe, and to reach Rome. They will play a role in the future events in Naples.
  3. When Ferdinando di Borbone sacked Carlo Troya, he added "Now you're free to go back to the Middle Ages" (Carlo Troya was a well known historian). Guglielmo Pepe wrote in his diary: "Yesterday Troya was an acceptable and worthy prime minister, and today he is discarded with unkind words and a sneer: after the death and destruction waged on the city of Naples and its poor citizens, I cannot but think that something is rotten in the state of Naples".
  4. Gennaro Spinelli Barile was a courteous and well educated nobleman, but never amounted to much in politics, given his well-known mediocrity: he was born to be a puppet and a lackey, not a puppet-master..
  5. A quote by Thomas Jefferson
 
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This is the complete interlude. The defiance of Parliament, the chaotic negotiations and the repression of the insurrection are in line with historical events (although the role of Ferdinando di Borbone has been described in very different ways, depending on who was telling the story.
The insurrection claimed from 600 to 2000 civilian deaths, and about 200 soldiers were killed.

@Tarabas will take care of the threadmarks
 
Gennaro Spinelli Barile was a courteous and well educated nobleman, but never amounted to much in politics, given his well-known mediocrity: he was born to be a puppet and a lackey, not a puppet-master...

So, a meat shield for a king that will become even more reactionary than usual.
 
So, a meat shield for a king that will become even more reactionary than usual.
Let's say he was born to be a clerk, or a secretary at best, certainly not a minister.
OTOH, Ferdinando di Borbone did not want ministers gifted with initiative...

For the record, the events of 23 April are not historical, but the Parliamentarian crisis, the insurrection and the resignation of Troya, his replacement with Gennaro Spinelli as Prime Minister are all historical.
The quotations from the diary of Guglielmo Pepe are not supported by any OTL document, nor are the musings of the Count of Siracusa: they might have happened IOTL too, though.
 
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Some images from the insurrection of 15 May 1848
(taken from Wiki)
 

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Arrix85

Donor
"Why, Ferdinand, why?" I just thought when reading about Ferdinand convincing the Pope to stay in Gaeta (It won't be for long once the revolution succeeds, but man....)
 
"Why, Ferdinand, why?" I just thought when reading about Ferdinand convincing the Pope to stay in Gaeta (It won't be for long once the revolution succeeds, but man....)
Because it would be inconceivable for a man and a king like "the other Ferdie" to do anything else.
IOTL, he did exactly the same when the Pope fled Rome in November 1848.
The situation IOTL was much stronger for the king, while ITTL his throne is less than secure and there are no allies on whom he might rely with confidence, but it does not matter at all: Ferdinando di Borbone is a devout Catholic, and a firm believer in the sacred right of anointed kings.
 
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The Bomb King after all was the Bomb King for a reason. Now this time he might not be able to gain this surname, still...
Not in Messina for sure (the garrison holed up in the citadel has been informed of the events occurring in the rest of Italy, and are well aware that any attempt to cannonade the city would not be tolerated).
What is going to happen in Naples is still to be seen: there were high casualties during the repression of the insurrection of 15 May (during the fighting and when the Swiss mercenaries went berserk), and many arrests. The diplomatic representatives of the Powers have been pressuring the king to show clemency, but the situation is still very tense.
The dice has rolled favorably for young Luigi La Vista, a young poet and writer who was showing great promise: IOTL, he was shot by a firing squad in Piazza della Carita'; ITTL, he has been arrested, but he is still alive.
 
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