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Hope you guys had a nice Easter break over there - by the way, I recently learned that Italy's signature Easter cake was born as a publicity stunt motivated by the need to recycle and reuse bits and pieces of Christmas cake ingredients, this made me think about how the Confederation will almost certainly see an alternate development of cuisine, too.

Maybe the ATL equivalent of the colomba will be cooked up (quite literally) during Passover by a Roman Jew eager to flip centuries of Papal rule the finger after the establishment of the Republic, who knows - cue the Catholic contingent of Rome buying scores of said cake to add insult to injury, with His Holiness being completely powerless inside the Vatican or even at the Bourbon court because why not, it happened before, and I don't think Sicily's crowning of a near-Jacobin made the king in Naples any more liberal. :p
 
I've been following for a while, but I think it's time to check in . Great TL, cannot wait to see where this is all going. Italy could hold the cards to do so much better (and I'm intrigued to see a federal state implented).
 
I've been following for a while, but I think it's time to check in . Great TL, cannot wait to see where this is all going. Italy could hold the cards to do so much better (and I'm intrigued to see a federal state implented).

Italy had several chances at forming a coherent state throughout the medieval and modern eras (the Canossa and Sforza dynasties, the Lombard League, the Medici-backed Italic League, and so on), but it blew them all, and got conquered as soon as new trade routes were discovered and the near-monopoly of Genoa and Venice on Mediterranean trade was made obsolete.

It's more or less what happened to the Greek poleis a thousand years earlier - the presence of several competing centers of power gave birth to several cultural, economic and military innovations, but the fact that those centers of power spent far too much time waging war against each other made the Macedonian and, later, Roman conquests of Greece very easy.

However, Victor Emmanuel II was very far from being an Alexander or an Augustus.

I've heard from plenty of immigrants and tourists over here, that they're baffled by how, in theory, Italy has everything it needs to be one of the leading countries in the world, but is, in practice, a Kafka-esque collage of insanity.
 
Hope you guys had a nice Easter break over there - by the way, I recently learned that Italy's signature Easter cake was born as a publicity stunt motivated by the need to recycle and reuse bits and pieces of Christmas cake ingredients, this made me think about how the Confederation will almost certainly see an alternate development of cuisine, too.

Maybe the ATL equivalent of the colomba will be cooked up (quite literally) during Passover by a Roman Jew eager to flip centuries of Papal rule the finger after the establishment of the Republic, who knows - cue the Catholic contingent of Rome buying scores of said cake to add insult to injury, with His Holiness being completely powerless inside the Vatican or even at the Bourbon court because why not, it happened before, and I don't think Sicily's crowning of a near-Jacobin made the king in Naples any more liberal. :p
I had a pretty lonely Easter break this year, but since it's 2021, let's call it Tuesday. Hope you had a nice one as well! Thanks for the info regarding the Colomba (never liked it that much TBH, but hey, I am #teampandoro, and always will be). I would definitely see an alternate development of cuisine ITTL Italy, although I have not thought about it thoroughly. I would say that ITTL the local flavor will be much more internationally recognized (I live in a country where "prosciutto crudo" is called "parma", which makes my Norcino blood boil). TTL Italy could feature no carbonara, now that I think about it....
 
I've been following for a while, but I think it's time to check in . Great TL, cannot wait to see where this is all going. Italy could hold the cards to do so much better (and I'm intrigued to see a federal state implented).
Thanks a lot for your support! That's really much appreciated, on behalf of me and @LordKalvan. We will get to the actual implementation of the Confederacy soon. We believe it will be an interesting setting. We aim to make TTL Italy fare better than OTL, and sure an earlier unification, on our own, through a federal way as opposed to OTL piedmontesization, definitely gives a good ground for that. How far this will go, only time will tell.
Italy had several chances at forming a coherent state throughout the medieval and modern eras (the Canossa and Sforza dynasties, the Lombard League, the Medici-backed Italic League, and so on), but it blew them all, and got conquered as soon as new trade routes were discovered and the near-monopoly of Genoa and Venice on Mediterranean trade was made obsolete.

It's more or less what happened to the Greek poleis a thousand years earlier - the presence of several competing centers of power gave birth to several cultural, economic and military innovations, but the fact that those centers of power spent far too much time waging war against each other made the Macedonian and, later, Roman conquests of Greece very easy.

However, Victor Emmanuel II was very far from being an Alexander or an Augustus.

I've heard from plenty of immigrants and tourists over here, that they're baffled by how, in theory, Italy has everything it needs to be one of the leading countries in the world, but is, in practice, a Kafka-esque collage of insanity.
An excellent analysis, and I have to admit I share the tourists baffling about how Italy manages to constantly underuse her resources (especially the human ones). As for VEII, I would say that unification was achieved despite him and not thanks to him, which is saying much. Of course he had the slight problem of being no match for Cavour as a politician and, say, Garibaldi as a man of war (whatever different their backgrounds), but truth to be told, the best we can say about him is that he made no huge mistakes. So much for the Re Galantuomo, Pater Patriae...
 
Hope you guys had a nice Easter break over there - by the way, I recently learned that Italy's signature Easter cake was born as a publicity stunt motivated by the need to recycle and reuse bits and pieces of Christmas cake ingredients, this made me think about how the Confederation will almost certainly see an alternate development of cuisine, too.

Maybe the ATL equivalent of the colomba will be cooked up (quite literally) during Passover by a Roman Jew eager to flip centuries of Papal rule the finger after the establishment of the Republic, who knows - cue the Catholic contingent of Rome buying scores of said cake to add insult to injury, with His Holiness being completely powerless inside the Vatican or even at the Bourbon court because why not, it happened before, and I don't think Sicily's crowning of a near-Jacobin made the king in Naples any more liberal. :p
Since Easter in 1848 was celebrated on 23 April (and Pesach was celebrated in the night of 17 April) it is likely that the Roman rabbis will draw a connection between the original Pesach in 1313 BC and the Pesach of 1848, since 17 April 1848 was a momentous date in the history of all Romans (but I am afraid you will have to wait a bit to know what happened on that day).
I am afraid that a Jewish baker producing a "colomba" for Pesach is a no-no, since traditionally only unleavened bread is baked for the festivity. However, there is another very important date coming soon after Pesach: 21 April, which in 1848 was the day on which Gen. Ferrari volunteers entered in Rome (a very symbolic date, being also Good Friday and the traditional anniversary of the founding of Rome). It is then more likely that the "colomba" would be produced by Jewish bakers on that date, and marketed to gentile customers as a symbol of renewal and resurrection. It would fit very well in the Italian zeitgeist of 1848, and in the following years might become very popular all over Italy.

You're quite right in your comment about Ferdinando di Borbone, who has been foaming at the mouth for some time now. He is still handicapped by peasants insurrections in Abruzzo and in Calabria, as well as by liberal agitations in Naples, but he is also unyielding in his beliefs that the divine rights of a king are sacrosanct. The chickens will come to roost in Naples too, just some time after Rome.
 
I've been following for a while, but I think it's time to check in . Great TL, cannot wait to see where this is all going. Italy could hold the cards to do so much better (and I'm intrigued to see a federal state implented).
Welcome on board, ex-lurker ;)
A successful 1848 (which is very much in the cards ITTL) would be a true game changer for Italy: it would be achieved by Italians on their own, it is likely to settle at a stroke all the border issues which plagued Italy after unifications (no irredenta ITTL) and - most importantly - the Italian Confederation would be built on a much more inclusive basis than the "Greater Piedmont" of OTL was. To quote Marquis Capponi of Tuscany: "Our goal is to bring Piedmont into Italy, and not Italy into Piedmont". :)
Italy had several chances at forming a coherent state throughout the medieval and modern eras (the Canossa and Sforza dynasties, the Lombard League, the Medici-backed Italic League, and so on), but it blew them all, and got conquered as soon as new trade routes were discovered and the near-monopoly of Genoa and Venice on Mediterranean trade was made obsolete.

It's more or less what happened to the Greek poleis a thousand years earlier - the presence of several competing centers of power gave birth to several cultural, economic and military innovations, but the fact that those centers of power spent far too much time waging war against each other made the Macedonian and, later, Roman conquests of Greece very easy.

However, Victor Emmanuel II was very far from being an Alexander or an Augustus.

I've heard from plenty of immigrants and tourists over here, that they're baffled by how, in theory, Italy has everything it needs to be one of the leading countries in the world, but is, in practice, a Kafka-esque collage of insanity.
I do agree that either the Canossa or the Visconti might have managed to form a coherent and centralized state in Italy, and, over time and with a bit of luck, they might unify the peninsula. Unfortunately, a malevolent god threw a spanner in the gears at the worse possible moment, and both opportunities evaporated (of course, if you ask the pope, he will tell you that it was all in accordance with God's plan to guarantee the independence of the Church :rolleyes:). Allow me to be a bit more skeptic about a long-lasting Lombard League: too many particularism, too many jealousies and too much political myopia for the League to consolidate into a true Confederation (the historical reference to the Greek city-states is quite apt, obviously). The Italic League was a noble attempt, but it never made the next step in becoming a Confederation, and dissolved when Lorenzo de' Medici died: anyway, the window of opportunity, which would have been available for Giangaleazzo Visconti in 1400, had completely closed by 1500.
A great pity, because the XV century should have been a great one for Italy (and it was such in many ways), but it was completely wasted in terms of politics and state building.
VEII was a mediocre king, mostly suffering from tunnel vision and depending too much on his Piedmontese cronies, but he had a couple of redeeming traits: he kept the Statute in 1849, and over the 1850s he conceded more and more parliamentarian prerogatives, even when they went against his own beliefs. I would say that his performance as a king quickly deteriorated in the 1860s, possibly because when Cavour died there was no one who might really take his place. Is this another example of a malevolent god tilting the scales?
 
I would love a food based post

Far too early for the mad anti-pasta Futurists, but perhaps some kind of pizza war?
At the mid of the 19th century, the unification of the nation may be close, but every town in the peninsula had its own typical cuisine, and there was little or no cross-contamination from region to region. The stereotypical pasta and pizza, which nowadays are automatically associated with Italian cooking were unknown in the north f the country. Funnily enough, the most widespread food (leaving aside soups or stews) was dried or salted cod, which is cooked in different ways but has a traditional recipe from the north to the south of Italy. Even olive oil was mostly unknown in the northern region (although there were olive groves in Liguria and on Lake Garda, olive oil was mostly used by the Church, for lamps). Then there were different foods for different social classes, but generally the staple food for urban proles was bread (and lucky to have it).

I believe that it is a bit early for a pizza war (although there were different ways of preparing pizzas or close equivalent in Rome and in Naples, for example.
Pasta was a staple food in the south (at least since the invention of machines for preparing dry pasta in the first quarter of the XVII century). Polenta was a staple food for the peasants, in particular in Veneto and Friuli. Rice was mostly cultivated in the North, Vercelli, Mantua and Ferrara were the main producers (and its cultivation brought malaria, until it was discovered that the water in the rice fields must not be let to stagnate). The most famous recipe (risotto alla milanese) was already popular in Milan since the beginning of the 19th century.


This is a very old recipe in Lombardy: goose with cabbage (traditionally eaten on Christmas Eve).
 
I would love a food based post

Far too early for the mad anti-pasta Futurists, but perhaps some kind of pizza war?
I second @LordKalvan 's answer. There will be time to play around with recipes, I expect some kind of cross-contamination between different local cuisines o happen at a later stage. But now that I think about it, OTL carbonara might arise in a very different context, maybe earlier than OTL (since it is not attested before WWII and it it generally believed to be born after the Americans got to Rome). It would be fun to see, say Amatriciana (that should already exist ITTL) or Norcina (which is typical of Umbria, with sausages and cream) replace Carbonara as one of the most vilified... I mean, popular Italian recipes abroad. Our main characters could be involuntarily protagonists in this process: I guess that a Piedmontese Queen in Palermo gives plenty of chances for this...
 
Our main characters could be involuntarily protagonists in this process: I guess that a Piedmontese Queen in Palermo gives plenty of chances for this...
That's a good point. A fusion cuisine putting French and Piedmontese on a Sicilian basis. Of course the reverse would apply too, given the anticipated popularity of Queen Costanza. Pasta may arrive earlier in the north ITTL, as well as other Sicilian signature dishes (there are Piedmontese and Venetian ships in Palermo, and they are going to stay for a while). I suppose that also Marsala wine (1) will become quite popular, not just in Italy but also in the UK, riding on the popularity of the Queen of Sicily. "By appointment to the Queen of Sicily" is going to become a much sought out approval stamp for the producers. Henri could play a role too, bringing to Sicily some French wine expert to improve the perception of the customers.

The 1850s were a decade of change also for the middle and low bourgeoisie, not just for the high one, and cooking books started to be printed for them. A good example is the "Moderna Cucina Economica Milanese" [Modern Economic Cooking Milanese-style], which was printed in Milan in 1853, and was a mini-bestseller. Incidentally, it also codified two classic Milanese recipes: the risotto-con-ossobuco and the cotoletta alla Milanese (pan-fried veal cutlet, never mind that the original recipe comes from Austria). ITTL, I would anticipate that by mid-1850s there would be in print books featuring recipes from different parts of Italy, again targeting the middle-bourgeoisie.

(1) If anyone wants to know what Marsala is, look here:
 
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That's a good point. A fusion cuisine putting French and Piedmontese on a Sicilian basis. Of course the reverse would apply too, given the anticipated popularity of Queen Costanza. Pasta may arrive earlier in the north ITTL, as well as other Sicilian signature dishes (there are Piedmontese and Venetian ships in Palermo, and they are going to stay for a while). I suppose that also Marsala wine (1) will become quite popular, not just in Italy but also in the UK, riding on the popularity of the Queen of Sicily. "By appointment to the Queen of Sicily" is going to become a much sought out approval stamp for the producers. Henri could play a role too, bringing to Sicily some French wine expert to improve the perception of the customers.

The 1850s were a decade of change also for the middle and low bourgeoisie, not just for the high one, and cooking books started to be printed for them. A good example is the "Moderna Cucina Economica Milanese" [Modern Economic Cooking Milanese-style], which was printed in Milan in 1853, and was a mini-bestseller. Incidentally, it also codified two classic Milanese recipes: the risotto-con-ossobuco and the cotoletta alla Milanese (pan-fried viel cutlet, never mind that the original recipe comes from Austria). ITTL, I would anticipate that by mid-1850s there would be in print books featuring recipes from different parts of Italy, again targeting the middle-bourgeoisie.

(1) If anyone wants to know what Marsala is, look here:
Loved the ideas! I would say that in this regard, MC will play a bigger role than Ferdinand, although I can see some ready-made, simple meal he likes become popular. As for the books, I would say that Pellegrino Artusi will play a role in this regard, I believe that his TTL book can become as popular os IOTL...
 
That's a good point. A fusion cuisine putting French and Piedmontese on a Sicilian basis. Of course the reverse would apply too, given the anticipated popularity of Queen Costanza. Pasta may arrive earlier in the north ITTL, as well as other Sicilian signature dishes (there are Piedmontese and Venetian ships in Palermo, and they are going to stay for a while). I suppose that also Marsala wine (1) will become quite popular, not just in Italy but also in the UK, riding on the popularity of the Queen of Sicily. "By appointment to the Queen of Sicily" is going to become a much sought out approval stamp for the producers. Henri could play a role too, bringing to Sicily some French wine expert to improve the perception of the customers.

The 1850s were a decade of change also for the middle and low bourgeoisie, not just for the high one, and cooking books started to be printed for them. A good example is the "Moderna Cucina Economica Milanese" [Modern Economic Cooking Milanese-style], which was printed in Milan in 1853, and was a mini-bestseller. Incidentally, it also codified two classic Milanese recipes: the risotto-con-ossobuco and the cotoletta alla Milanese (pan-fried viel cutlet, never mind that the original recipe comes from Austria). ITTL, I would anticipate that by mid-1850s there would be in print books featuring recipes from different parts of Italy, again targeting the middle-bourgeoisie.

(1) If anyone wants to know what Marsala is, look here:

We could have a Sfincione Costanza rather than a Pizza Margherita, maybe. :p

Still, Italian cuisine got as big as it did worldwide due to the influence of emigration (especially, to the United States), a phenomenon that might be less prevalent here. It could still find foreign admirers through other routes however, similarly to how anime and K-Pop paved the road for Japanese and Korean cuisine. And since IOTL you had people who never even set foot into Italy slap Garibaldi's face on their products due to his popularity, Maria Cristina could be even more of a draw: just like Garibaldi, she has a charismatic personality and a good look but, being a noblewoman of very old lineage as well as a queen in her own right, her "brand" would appeal even to the more conservative elements of society.

Hell, she could even try and get a cut out of every product associated with her name to replenish the coffers of Sicily... :p
 
Loved the ideas! I would say that in this regard, MC will play a bigger role than Ferdinand, although I can see some ready-made, simple meal he likes become popular. As for the books, I would say that Pellegrino Artusi will play a role in this regard, I believe that his TTL book can become as popular os IOTL...
Good catch, but I do believe Artusi will be a bit of a late comer, since he published his book only in 1891. Incidentally, his life should be better in a way: in 1851, the infamous brigand Passatore raided Forlimpopoli in Romagna, where he was living with his family. Besides the fright and the loss of money and other valuables, one of his sisters was raped and another was wounded. After this, the family moved to Florence, where they prospered in the silk trade. However, I doubt that the Passatore will still be around ITTL 1851, and therefore the Artusi family will remain in Forlimpopoli.

Never mind, anyway: maybe Pellegrino will get interested in cuisine earlier, and in any case there will be other authors who will take advantage of the opportunity in the literary market.
 
We could have a Sfincione Costanza rather than a Pizza Margherita, maybe. :p

Still, Italian cuisine got as big as it did worldwide due to the influence of emigration (especially, to the United States), a phenomenon that might be less prevalent here. It could still find foreign admirers through other routes however, similarly to how anime and K-Pop paved the road for Japanese and Korean cuisine. And since IOTL you had people who never even set foot into Italy slap Garibaldi's face on their products due to his popularity, Maria Cristina could be even more of a draw: just like Garibaldi, she has a charismatic personality and a good look but, being a noblewoman of very old lineage as well as a queen in her own right, her "brand" would appeal even to the more conservative elements of society.

Hell, she could even try and get a cut out of every product associated with her name to replenish the coffers of Sicily... :p
Or the "Arancini Costanza", who knows?
Strange as it may seem, I guess that in a few years we might even have a "Bagna Caoda alla Palermitana", although I suppose that it would be eaten in winter in Palermo :p
And by return, we will have thistles cooked tempura style, and served with anchovies a la mode de Palermo XD

Besides this, I can see Costanza promoting a Sicilian presence at the Expos coming up in London and Paris (and maybe New York too). If the political situation in Sicily is under control, the Queen might even pay a visit to the Expos, which would be a very good propaganda move.
 
So I don’t get pizza war between Naples & Rome & Sicily, but do get fascinating trends on mid century Italian cooking. I can live with that! :)
Well, most parts of Italy have one kind or another of "focaccia", and it does not make any sense to say that the "true one" is coming from one place or another. The oldest recorded mention of the word "pizza" is from a lease contract of AD 997, preserved in the archives of Gaeta (a town midway between Rome and Naples, which was a free comune around the start of XI century); it is obviously unclear what the word "pizza" represented, possibly some kind of focaccia made on a festive day.

There was a bakery who sold pizzas in Naples in 1830, most likely a focaccia, seasoned with lard and cheese, and sometimes (but not always) smeared with tomato sauce.
The real breakthrough in terms of widespread recognition of the pizza dates back to the visit of king Umberto and queen Margherita to Naples in 1889: a Neapolitan pizzaiolo presented his creation to the queen, who allegedly liked it very much, saying that he had created this recipe to honor the queen herself and the Italian flag. As I said, similar pizzas were already sold in Naples since the 1830s, but kudos to this guy (Raffaele Esposito) for his commercial initiative: the "pizza Margherita" was born.
 
Guys, I love this discussion on food being a fellow Italian myself too. Anyway, I'm still waiting to read a new masterpiece from you two guys :)
 
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