Compliments on your Greece timeline. You really seem to have put effort on it. I also like the way you put detail in it.

Unfortunally I can't always read your timeline because I am an Ottoman obsessed person and such timelines hurt my feelings :p
 
Well at the very least his situation is going to be completely different, but that is predicated on his mother still being Louise-Marie d'Orleans which isn't as much of a certainty given Leopold I's different kingdom.

No serious political gain to be gained from marrying Louise-Marie. There is an unfortunate dearth of Russian grand duchesses of course and marrying a Greek for all the obvious advantages it would bring within Greece runs at the problem of every other royal in Europe getting horrified at not marrying a blueblood.
 
Compliments on your Greece timeline. You really seem to have put effort on it. I also like the way you put detail in it.

Unfortunally I can't always read your timeline because I am an Ottoman obsessed person and such timelines hurt my feelings :p
Thank you very much and I'm sorry for your loss.:p While I'm not intentionally trying to destroy the Ottoman Empire, they were struggling with a bunch of issues that just so happened to boil over all around the same time in OTL and TTL with nationalism, overly ambitious vassals, and Russian aggression just to name a few.
 
No serious political gain to be gained from marrying Louise-Marie. There is an unfortunate dearth of Russian grand duchesses of course and marrying a Greek for all the obvious advantages it would bring within Greece runs at the problem of every other royal in Europe getting horrified at not marrying a blueblood.
I've spent more time looking for an appropriate wife for Leopold than I would like to admit. The OTL marriage between Leopold and Louise-Marie of Orleans was primarily due to his close proximity to France, and the very legitimate need for a French alliance. As he is King of Greece, that need no longer exists and while marrying the princess of from a Great Power like France would be nice it has some added problems as well, namely religion. As far as I know, Louise-Marie was a very devout woman and I can't see her converting from Roman Catholic to Greek Orthodox, nor would I see the Greek Government and people accepting a Catholic as their Queen so she is likely out as a first choice.

The best candidate would be a Russian Princess, but unless I missed someone, all of the Russian Grand Duchesses are either too young, too old, married, or dead.
Nicholas' daughters Maria Nikolaevna, Olga Nikolaevna, and Alexandra Nikolaevna are 11, 8, and 5 respectively in 1830.
Tsar Alexander had no surviving legitimate issue.
Grand Duke Konstantin Pavolich had no legitimate issue.
Grand Duke Michael's daughters are too young to be married anytime soon, the oldest Maria Mikhailovna is 5 in 1830.
Going back a generation, Tsar Paul's daughters are similarly not available as well as they are all married or dead as of 1830.
 
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I've spent more time looking for an appropriate wife for Leopold than I would like to admit. The OTL marriage between Leopold and Louise-Marie of Orleans was primarily due to his close proximity to France, and the very legitimate need for a French alliance. As he is King of Greece, that need no longer exists and while marrying the princess of from a Great Power like France would be nice it has some added problems as well, namely religion. As far as I know, Louise-Marie was a very devout woman and I can't see her converting from Roman Catholic to Greek Orthodox, nor would I see the Greek Government and people accepting a Catholic as their Queen so she is likely out as a first choice.

The best candidate would be a Russian Princess, but unless I missed someone, all of the Russian Grand Duchesses are either too young, too old, married, or dead.
Nicholas' daughters Maria Nikolaevna, Olga Nikolaevna, and Alexandra Nikolaevna are 11, 8, and 5 respectively in 1830.
Tsar Alexander had no surviving legitimate issue.
Grand Duke Konstantin Pavolich had no legitimate issue.
Grand Duke Michael's daughters are too young to be married anytime soon, the oldest Maria Mikhailovna is 5 in 1830.
Going back a generation, Tsar Paul's daughters are similarly not available as well as they are all married or dead as of 1830.

Any further down the line from them doesn't seem all that politically or diplomatically valuable, even then most of these are not Grand Duchesses so the connection to Russia is dubious at best.
Some German princess(or Scandinavian? I don't remember much about the family trees of the time besides the most notable facts) seems to be the only choice. Is Catholicism really such a big obstacle though, given that the chldren will inevitably be raised Orthodox? For that matter, will Leopold himself convert? He didn't OTL.
 
Some German princess(or Scandinavian? I don't remember much about the family trees of the time besides the most notable facts) seems to be the only choice. Is Catholicism really such a big obstacle though, given that the chldren will inevitably be raised Orthodox? For that matter, will Leopold himself convert? He didn't OTL.
Generally the Greeks were pretty tolerant religiously so it really shouldn't be that big of an issue, but it would certainly help the stability and legitimacy of the monarchy if the King and Queen either were born Orthodox or converted to Orthodox before their coronation. I don't believe Leopold was ever asked to convert to Catholicism or under any pressure to convert as his marriage to Louise-Marie did much to dampen any religious fervor against him. Otto did have a lot of problems in Greece because of his strong Catholic faith, and it was one of the reasons behind his ousting in 1862 among other things. Leopold, strikes me as a man who would do whatever is needed to secure himself firmly upon his throne and if that means converting I believe he would convert. Now would he like to, probably not, but he was a realist and a pragmatist.

After the Russian Grand Duchesses, the next best candidates would probably be German Princesses or British Princesses. But there again there really aren't many candidates available at first glance.
As of this moment though, I have not checked the Scandinavian countries or the minor German Principalities yet.

Britain:
George III’s surviving daughters are all in their fifties and sixties by 1830 which rules them out for childbearing reasons.
George IV, Frederick, and William IV don’t have any legitimate daughters that have survived to 1830.
The Duke of Sussex does have a daughter, Augusta Emma d’Este, but given the hoopla over her parent’s marriage I’m not sure this is a viable option.
The Duke of Cambridge had a daughter as well, also named Augusta, but she is only 8 as of 1830.

Prussia:
King Frederick William III of Prussia’s daughters are all married.
His brother, Prince Louis’ daughter Frederica Wilhelma who was married to duke Leopold of Anhalt Dressau in 1818.
Their brother Prince Henry has no children.
Their sister Frederica Charlotte had no children.
Their second sister Wilhelmine had one daughter, Marianne, who survived to adulthood, and she does marry in September 1830 so it would have to be a quick arrangement to circumvent the OTL match for her.
Their last sister Augusta does have two daughters, but the youngest Marie was married in 1825 and I can’t find any information on the older daughter Karoline which implies to me that she had some unfortunate disability or she died young.
Their final sibling Prince Wilhelm, has two surviving daughters, Marie Elisabeth Karoline Viktoria and Marie Fredericka Franziska Hedwig, but they are both relatively young, being 14 and 5 respectively.

Austria:
Francis II doesn’t have any available daughters as they are either married, dead, or mentally disabled.
His son and successor Ferdinand has no children.
Leopold could marry Ferdinand’s sister and Francis’ daughter Marie Louise, the former wife of Napoleon for shits and giggles but she is probably too old for any viable children and I’m pretty confident she is politically unviable as well.
Maria Leopoldina’s daughters are too young for marriage anytime soon as is her sister Clementia’s daughter Maria Carolina.
Maria Caroline had no children and Archduke Franz Karl’s children aren’t born yet.

Bavaria:
King Ludwig's daughter Princess Mathilde Caroline is available as she didn't marry until 1833, so it could be a possibility but her OTL marriage was childless so that may not be the best.
The rest of Ludwig's daughters Adelgunde, Hildegard, and Alexandra are only 7, 5, and 4 respectively as of 1830.
Ludwig's sister Princess Caronline Augusta is married to Emperor Francis of Austria and she has no daughters.
Princess Elisabeth Ludovika was married to Prince Frederick William of Prussia in 1823, but she was childless.
Princess Amalie Auguste was married in 1822 to King John of Saxony and as of 1830 they have two children.
Princess Sophie was married to Archduke Franz Karl of Austria in 1824.
Princess Maria Anna of Bavaria is available in 1830. She is 25 years old and her OTL marriage isn't until 1833. So this match could happen. However she had no children in her OTL marriage.
Ludwig's last sister, Princess Ludovika was married to Maximilian Joseph of Bavaria in 1828.
Ludwig's older sister Augusta is technically available, but it may not be the best match considering she is the widow of Eugene de Beauharnais and she is 42 as of 1830.

I believe they are all married as of 1830.
Grand Duchess Elena Pavlovna's daughter, Marie Louise of Mecklenburg-Schwerin was married in 1825 to Duke George of Saxe-Altenburg.
Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna's daughter, Princess Maria of Saxe-Weimar-Eisenach married Prince Charles of Prussia in 1827 and her younger sister Augusta married Prince Wilhelm of Prussia (OTL Kaiser Wilhelm I of Germany) in 1829.
Grand Duchess Catherine Pavlovina's daughters, Maria Friederike Charlotte and Sophie Friederike Mathilde are unmarried, but they are only 14 and 12 respectively in 1830.
The last granddaughter of Tsar Paul is Princess Sophie of the Netherlands, but she is only 6 in 1830.
 
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Yes but A) that's creepy and B) I doubt it would fly with European monarchs, especially when education is usually going on longer and more necessary to royalty.
 
Generally the Greeks were pretty tolerant religiously so it really shouldn't be that big of an issue, but it would certainly help the stability and legitimacy of the monarchy if the King and Queen either were born Orthodox or converted to Orthodox before their coronation. I don't believe Leopold was ever asked to convert to Catholicism or under any pressure to convert as his marriage to Louise-Marie did much to dampen any religious fervor against him. Otto did have a lot of problems in Greece because of his strong Catholic faith, and it was one of the reasons behind his ousting in 1862 among other things. Leopold, strikes me as a man who would do whatever is needed to secure himself firmly upon his throne and if that means converting I believe he would convert. Now would he like to, probably not, but he was a realist and a pragmatist.

After the Russian Grand Duchesses, the next best candidates would probably be German Princesses or British Princesses. But there again there really aren't many candidates available at first glance.
As of this moment though, I have not checked the Scandinavian countries or the minor German Principalities yet.

Britain:
George III’s surviving daughters are all in their fifties and sixties by 1830 which rules them out for childbearing reasons.
George IV, Frederick, and William IV don’t have any legitimate daughters that have survived to 1830.
The Duke of Sussex does have a daughter, Augusta Emma d’Este, but given the hoopla over her parent’s marriage I’m not sure this is a viable option.
The Duke of Cambridge had a daughter as well, also named Augusta, but she is only 8 as of 1830.

Prussia:
King Frederick William III of Prussia’s daughters are all married.
His brother, Prince Louis’ daughter Frederica Wilhelma who was married to duke Leopold of Anhalt Dressau in 1818.
Their brother Prince Henry has no children.
Their sister Frederica Charlotte had no children.
Their second sister Wilhelmine had one daughter, Marianne, who survived to adulthood, and she does marry in September 1830 so it would have to be a quick arrangement to circumvent the OTL match for her.
Their last sister Augusta does have two daughters, but the youngest Marie was married in 1825 and I can’t find any information on the older daughter Karoline which implies to me that she had some unfortunate disability or she died young.
Their final sibling Prince Wilhelm, has two surviving daughters, Marie Elisabeth Karoline Viktoria and Marie Fredericka Franziska Hedwig, but they are both relatively young, being 14 and 5 respectively.

Austria:
Francis II doesn’t have any available daughters as they are either married, dead, or mentally disabled.
His son and successor Ferdinand has no children.
Leopold could marry Ferdinand’s sister and Francis’ daughter Marie Louise, the former wife of Napoleon for shits and giggles but she is probably too old for any viable children and I’m pretty confident she is politically unviable as well.
Maria Leopoldina’s daughters are too young for marriage anytime soon as is her sister Clementia’s daughter Maria Carolina.
Maria Caroline had no children and Archduke Franz Karl’s children aren’t born yet.

Bavaria:
King Ludwig's daughter Princess Mathilde Caroline is available as she didn't marry until 1833, so it could be a possibility but her OTL marriage was childless so that may not be the best.
The rest of Ludwig's daughters Adelgunde, Hildegard, and Alexandra are only 7, 5, and 4 respectively as of 1830.
Ludwig's sister Princess Caronline Augusta is married to Emperor Francis of Austria and she has no daughters.
Princess Elisabeth Ludovika was married to Prince Frederick William of Prussia in 1823, but she was childless.
Princess Amalie Auguste was married in 1822 to King John of Saxony and as of 1830 they have two children.
Princess Sophie was married to Archduke Franz Karl of Austria in 1824.
Princess Maria Anna of Bavaria is available in 1830. She is 25 years old and her OTL marriage isn't until 1833. So this match could happen. However she had no children in her OTL marriage.
Ludwig's last sister, Princess Ludovika was married to Maximilian Joseph of Bavaria in 1828.
Ludwig's older sister Augusta is technically available, but it may not be the best match considering she is the widow of Eugene de Beauharnais and she is 42 as of 1830.


I believe they are all married as of 1830.
Grand Duchess Elena Pavlovna's daughter, Marie Louise of Mecklenburg-Schwerin was married in 1825 to Duke George of Saxe-Altenburg.
Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna's daughter, Princess Maria of Saxe-Weimar-Eisenach married Prince Charles of Prussia in 1827 and her younger sister Augusta married Prince Wilhelm of Prussia (OTL Kaiser Wilhelm I of Germany) in 1829.
Grand Duchess Catherine Pavlovina's daughters, Maria Friederike Charlotte and Sophie Friederike Mathilde are unmarried, but they are only 14 and 12 respectively in 1830.
The last granddaughter of Tsar Paul is Princess Sophie of the Netherlands, but she is only 6 in 1830.

Perhaps we should have this lady https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katerina_Botsari Not a royal but this being the romantic era and the lady somewhat celebrated it might just be acceptable when the alternative is some German princeling. After all if a princess of Montenegro could be queen of Italy why not the princess of Souli?
 
Maria of Saxe-Weimar-Eisenach married Prince Charles of Prussia in 1827


I've read that Princess Maria awaited very long till she finaly engaged Charles because her first choice was Prince and future Kaiser, Wilhelm, who had an affair with a certain Radzwil in those days....

It depends on how early Was Leopold offered Greek throne....
 
The problem isn't so much the age of the girls, as it is the age of Leopold. In May 1830, he is over 39 years old which makes him more than twice the age of most women available at the time of his coronation. While there have been huge age discrepancies in royal weddings before, its still kind of weird even for this time period. Generally, from what I've seen most brides of this era tended to wait until 18-20 before marrying which would mean a bit of a waiting period for some of the younger girls. I'll keep looking and if nothing else, I can always go with his OTL wife Louise-Marie and play it off as Louis Philippe wanting to increase his influence in Greece.
I've read that Princess Maria awaited very long till she finaly engaged Charles because her first choice was Prince and future Kaiser, Wilhelm, who had an affair with a certain Radzwil in those days....

It depends on how early Was Leopold offered Greek throne....
Leopold was unofficially informed of his candidacy in October 1829 and he formally accepted in February 1830, before the Treaty was signed and confirmed in May 1830 ITTL. I'm pretty sure Princess Marie was married in May 1827 which is three years before Leopold was confirmed by the Powers as King of Greece.
 
I would be cheeky and propose Otto's OTL consort, Amalie Marie Friederike von Oldenburg, but she doesn't become 18 until 1836 (and curiously enough, she married Otto a day after her birthday that very year), and I'm unsure whether she would be a good choice considering OTL hindsight.

Marie Friederike Charlotte von Württemberg seems like a much nicer choice, especially considering what her Dutch and Italian Wikipedia pages reveal about her, and waiting until 1833/1834 shouldn't hurt Leopold at all. I mean, Otto waited four years until he got married!
 
I would be cheeky and propose Otto's OTL consort, Amalie Marie Friederike von Oldenburg, but she doesn't become 18 until 1836 (and curiously enough, she married Otto a day after her birthday that very year), and I'm unsure whether she would be a good choice considering OTL hindsight.

Marie Friederike Charlotte von Württemberg seems like a much nicer choice, especially considering what her Dutch and Italian Wikipedia pages reveal about her, and waiting until 1833/1834 shouldn't hurt Leopold at all. I mean, Otto waited four years until he got married!

The kids problem was due to Otto
 
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