Prevents the thirty years war
- Thread starter VVD0D95
- Start date
Prevent Reformation? Possible with PODs early enough (pre 1400 I'd say).
Prevent gunpowder spread to Europe? Even earlier.
Last Minute solutions may be there, but there the challenge is to not just postpone the war for a decade or so. The confessional blocs as well as the rising powerful states all around the Old Empire made a big conflagration probable. Especially since nobody appeared to be aware of just how devastating mass landsknecht wars would be.
Prevent gunpowder spread to Europe? Even earlier.
Last Minute solutions may be there, but there the challenge is to not just postpone the war for a decade or so. The confessional blocs as well as the rising powerful states all around the Old Empire made a big conflagration probable. Especially since nobody appeared to be aware of just how devastating mass landsknecht wars would be.
How early a PoD can we have?
If the Habsburg line dies out in the later 15C, and whoever replaces them doesn't marry into the Spanish Royal Family, then all Germany might have become Lutheran in the 16C. Catholics and Calvinists survive but only as small minorities. Princes of Germany close ranks round the Emperor (whoever he is) against aggression by France or any other Catholic power. Germans don't fight among themselves to any great extent.
If the Habsburg line dies out in the later 15C, and whoever replaces them doesn't marry into the Spanish Royal Family, then all Germany might have become Lutheran in the 16C. Catholics and Calvinists survive but only as small minorities. Princes of Germany close ranks round the Emperor (whoever he is) against aggression by France or any other Catholic power. Germans don't fight among themselves to any great extent.
VVD0D95
Banned
Hmm interesting, what’s the latest date you think the thirty years war could be delayed? And could one prevent Frederick v taking the crown of Bohemia?
Complicated, if as per OTL possible divergence points:
Rudolf marries, is more proactive with regards to imperial affairs and avoids antagonising his family too much. With an heir, more stability in family matters and less room for other family members to begins their plays. Prevent the brothers strife, no letter of Majesty weakening the legitimacy of the Bohemian Protestant's rebellion. Avoiding the long Turkish War and maybe seizing Julich-Berg to enhance the Austrian lines finances. Enhance Melchior Klesl and his policies for the time being before bringing in the Counter-Reformation. Also he himself should enforce the Imperial Bank on donauworth, to set an example rather than Bavaria.
Frederick V minding his business
Keeping Gustav Adolphus busy in the PLC longer, prolong the Ingrian War (though unlikely)
Keep the Dutch & French busy. Worsen the Nobles Rebellion of 1620 in France. As for the Dutch, not exactly sure how.
Rudolf marries, is more proactive with regards to imperial affairs and avoids antagonising his family too much. With an heir, more stability in family matters and less room for other family members to begins their plays. Prevent the brothers strife, no letter of Majesty weakening the legitimacy of the Bohemian Protestant's rebellion. Avoiding the long Turkish War and maybe seizing Julich-Berg to enhance the Austrian lines finances. Enhance Melchior Klesl and his policies for the time being before bringing in the Counter-Reformation. Also he himself should enforce the Imperial Bank on donauworth, to set an example rather than Bavaria.
Frederick V minding his business
Keeping Gustav Adolphus busy in the PLC longer, prolong the Ingrian War (though unlikely)
Keep the Dutch & French busy. Worsen the Nobles Rebellion of 1620 in France. As for the Dutch, not exactly sure how.
VVD0D95
Banned
Interesting, what about having Rudolf II die in say 1594? COuld that be enough to help move things along? Ernest would become Emperor next one would assume, and would then need to marry and sire children
Sadly yes, quite frankly I am partial to Rudolf II (his personal crown is amazing, something of a learned/cultured man as well). But he did so many stupid things. They should've never sent him off to Spain.
Don't know much of Ernst to say which way he'll direct things. But after Maximilian II until Ferdinand II, the ruling Habsburgs were far to reactive than proactive IMHO. I get you don't want to rock the boat but come on.( I'm partial to Matthias & Albrecht. Pretty much Maximilian II's line. So much wasted potential) Meanwhile Ferdinand II was just extra.
Anyway, I think the crux of it all may very well be having someone of stronger more determined mettle, kids so the succession is clear, avoiding the Long Turkish War (or a victory, control Basta and gently re-catholicise, I know Michael the Brave is a schemer but use him and then recall him to Vienna when you have a nice truce with our Ottoman friends) and let the Emperor be more active in asserting some perogatives (donauworth, Julich-Succession)
Even if you take the view that some sort of confessional war was inevitable by the 1600s (I don't know enough about the period to say whether this is true or not), there's no reason why it has to end up analogous to OTL's Thirty Years' War. The Imperial side had basically won by 1625, and again in 1630, and again in 1635, but each time a foreign power intervened and caused the war to flare up again. Butterfly away one or more of these interventions (say, by having Christian IV decide not to intervene, or by having Gustavus Adolphus fall off his horse and die in 1629), and the conflict would end up being much shorter and less destructive.
VVD0D95
Banned
Or perhaps exploring what Ernest himself would do as emperor, do we know if he was as reactionary as his brothers?
I think that maybe- just MAYBE- if you could
change one event from what happened IOTL
than TTYW could indeed be butterflied away.
That one event is the elector Frederick taking the crown of Bohemia in 1619. He
doesn't do this- @ the time there were many
pleading with him not to- Emperor Ferdinand doesn't invade Bohemia to get what he regarded as his realm back. After
he did expel Frederick, Frederick then rallied
Protestant support to fight back against the
Emperor. So Ferdinand- to vastly over
simplify things of course- doesn't bring in
Wallenstein, whose armies are so successful
that Sweden & France come in, then Spain
too- well, I think you get the picture! From
that one seed grew a vast- & deadly- tree.
change one event from what happened IOTL
than TTYW could indeed be butterflied away.
That one event is the elector Frederick taking the crown of Bohemia in 1619. He
doesn't do this- @ the time there were many
pleading with him not to- Emperor Ferdinand doesn't invade Bohemia to get what he regarded as his realm back. After
he did expel Frederick, Frederick then rallied
Protestant support to fight back against the
Emperor. So Ferdinand- to vastly over
simplify things of course- doesn't bring in
Wallenstein, whose armies are so successful
that Sweden & France come in, then Spain
too- well, I think you get the picture! From
that one seed grew a vast- & deadly- tree.
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