President John C. Frémont

since i've had Anglo-American Rivalry on the brain, lately--particularly the rise of the Republican Party and the outbreak of the Civil War--one thing i wanted to explore is the possibility of John C. Frémont being the first Republican President rather than Lincoln, and his presidency potentially leading to secession (because the South has a history of bitching and moaning whenever they don't get their way, i doubt Frémont's election would deter them from secession any more than Lincoln's did :rolleyes:). Frémont's own positions may work well for another thing i've kind-of decided, that the Union would try to wait out the Confederacy after Sumter is attacked rather than call up an armed force to fight, which was a contributing factor to the secession of Virginia and the other states in the "Near South"; Frémont was apparently pretty passive-aggressive, so just starving out the CSA would probably be his way to go until they (almost inevitably) decide to straight up invade the Union

but first thing's first: Frémont needs to actually be elected :p of course, he was the Republican candidate in 1856 (only to lose out to Buchanan) but does anyone think he could conceivably be elected at an earlier or later time? perhaps his administration could replace Lincoln's from OTL, or maybe he could get in there in the 1852 election. or perhaps he's even elected at a later time, such as in , in which case the Civil War could conceivably occur at a later time than it historically did (which could bring all sorts of interesting changes). Frémont did actually run in 1864 as a Radical Republican, but that didn't mean much
 
Anglo-American Rivalry
What is this. You mention it in almost every post. Is this your TL you have yet to write? Or is it a TL on the board somewhere.

ALso, Fremont could be elected later, but before 1856 it is doubtful. He was 38 in '56, and he would have been 34 in '52. If he turned 35 before his election/inaguration he oculd have gotten in, but that is doubtful.

EVen besides that, you would need to totally overplay him even more, and perhaps have him not being a whig and the polar opposite of his father-in-law.
 
What is this. You mention it in almost every post. Is this your TL you have yet to write? Or is it a TL on the board somewhere.
it's a more serious (read: not ASB) TL that i'm gradually working on ;) in short: the US and UK hate each other after the ARW through to the present-day rather than getting on better terms with one another because of their common heritage (so the POD is the end of hostilities in the ARW). i just like to notify people of why i'm asking a particular thing at the beginning of my threads to more or less give them some expectations of where i am/might be going with this :)
ALso, Fremont could be elected later, but before 1856 it is doubtful. He was 38 in '56, and he would have been 34 in '52. If he turned 35 before his election/inaguration he oculd have gotten in, but that is doubtful.

EVen besides that, you would need to totally overplay him even more, and perhaps have him not being a whig and the polar opposite of his father-in-law.
looking into it a little more, perhaps he could be elected as a Whig before later identifying more with the Republicans, since a fair amount of Whigs later joined the Republicans. his platform would still be anti-slavery, so he could be seen as the spiritual predecessor to the Republicans
 
looking into it a little more, perhaps he could be elected as a Whig before later identifying more with the Republicans, since a fair amount of Whigs later joined the Republicans. his platform would still be anti-slavery, so he could be seen as the spiritual predecessor to the Republicans
It would be an extremely hard sell getting him to win, or even be considered in 1852.
 
Frémont's own positions may work well for another thing i've kind-of decided, that the Union would try to wait out the Confederacy after Sumter is attacked rather than call up an armed force to fight...

Which would be a really stupid policy, as it would mean doing nothing while the CSA organized its government, built up its army, fortified its borders, acquired a navy, and forcibly suppressed all the Unionists in its territory - you know, loyal U.S. citizens subject to arrest or even murder by secesh goons. (See the history of the German settlers of south Texas for gruesome examples.)

which was a contributing factor to the secession of Virginia and the other states in the "Near South";

A neo-Confederate myth. The Upper South had a lot of conditional Unionists; they opposed secession and expected the slavery issues to be resolved by abject northern concessions to win back the Deep South. There is no evidence that they would have stayed in the Union if those concessions were not made or the Deep South refused to rescind secession; and if the U.S. does nothing to put down secession, the objection that secession means war and destruction is gone too.

When the CSA fired on Fort Sumter, all possibility of peaceful reunion was out. The Upper South could remain in the Union, under an anti-slavery President and with a 19-8 majority of free states. Or join the CSA - something the Virginia legislature had already pledged to do if there was no "compromise".

Frémont was apparently pretty passive-aggressive

What the heck does this mean?

so just starving out the CSA would probably be his way to go

How does the U.S "starve out" the CSA? What imports does the CSA require to survive? And how does the U.S. blockade the CSA without fighting? Bases on the Southern coast were required to support the blockading squadrons.

until they (almost inevitably) decide to straight up invade the Union

Why would the CSA invade the U.S. if the U.S. is leaving them alone? It's not "almost inevitable"; not even probable; in fact, IMO, almost impossible.

but does anyone think he could conceivably be elected at an earlier or later time?

I don't know enough about his political abilities to guess whether he could have been nominated or elected in 1860.

Earlier is right out, for a number of reasons.
 
since i've had Anglo-American Rivalry on the brain, lately--particularly the rise of the Republican Party and the outbreak of the Civil War--one thing i wanted to explore is the possibility of John C. Frémont being the first Republican President rather than Lincoln, and his presidency potentially leading to secession (because the South has a history of bitching and moaning whenever they don't get their way, i doubt Frémont's election would deter them from secession any more than Lincoln's did :rolleyes:). Frémont's own positions may work well for another thing i've kind-of decided, that the Union would try to wait out the Confederacy after Sumter is attacked rather than call up an armed force to fight, which was a contributing factor to the secession of Virginia and the other states in the "Near South"; Frémont was apparently pretty passive-aggressive, so just starving out the CSA would probably be his way to go until they (almost inevitably) decide to straight up invade the Union

but first thing's first: Frémont needs to actually be elected :p of course, he was the Republican candidate in 1856 (only to lose out to Buchanan) but does anyone think he could conceivably be elected at an earlier or later time? perhaps his administration could replace Lincoln's from OTL, or maybe he could get in there in the 1852 election. or perhaps he's even elected at a later time, such as in , in which case the Civil War could conceivably occur at a later time than it historically did (which could bring all sorts of interesting changes). Frémont did actually run in 1864 as a Radical Republican, but that didn't mean much

This cool little TL here, meets that criteria, I think. :D
 

Delta Force

Banned
How does the U.S "starve out" the CSA? What imports does the CSA require to survive? And how does the U.S. blockade the CSA without fighting? Bases on the Southern coast were required to support the blockading squadrons.

The CSA ended up running out of food in OTL because they kept growing cash crops instead of switching over to food, so it is literally possible for that to happen.
 
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