Pres. Obama’s popularity with working-class white Americans increasingly grows during presidency?

FBKampfer

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You are aware, a savvy-enough conservative could use this against liberals, right? Forcing MSBNBC/NBC/CNN to "balance" out their programming.

tbh the progressive focus on trying to reinstate the fairness doctrine reminds me of HUAC. they created HUAC to use it against fascists, but yet we all know it got used for McCarthyism otl


Assuming they can leverage it, or even necessarily catch it.

Theres so much crap that just gets piggybacked on other bills. Just slip it into something when you're getting ready to push the ACA through and even if they notice, the media is likely tied up with the ACA coverage.
 
. . low opinion of "rural white people clinging to their guns", . .
And then Sen. Obama also said people cling to religion. An absolutely huge blunder, as big as Pres. Ford’s statement that “There is no Soviet domination of Eastern Europe and there never will be under a Ford administration.” Dogged Pres. Obama his entire eight years.

And worse, it was said at a San Francisco fundraiser several weeks before the big Pennsylvania primary.
 
Around the weekend of April 5 and 6, 2008, at a San Francisco’s fundraiser, Sen. Obama said:

http://articles.latimes.com/2008/apr/13/nation/na-obama13

“You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are going to regenerate and they have not. . . ” <— this part is good

“ . . . So it's not surprising, then, that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.” <— this part is terrible

And the part religion is at the very least a huge social blind spot on the part of Obama. More than you or I might be or be comfortable being, some people are wired up to be devoutly religious. It makes sense to them, it gels with them emotionally, etc. In fact, a devoutly religious person thinks he or she understands a language which you and I might not.

Some people are completely against politics (say “they’re all crooks” and just push the whole thing away) but think their having a gun will make for last-minute good citizenship. Maybe for a zombie apocalypse , but in the real world where a middle-of-the-road gov’t drifts to authoritarian, one, you might end up being on the wrong side if you never try to realistically understand what’s going on in politics, and two, this is the government’s strong suit and they’re likely to label you as a rebel, a terrorist or worse. So, yes, I very much disagree with the view that a gun is automatically a last-minute bulwark for liberty, but this view and belief is definitely out there.

I do believe persons should be able to buy guns for self-defense without a waiting period. And if they wish to believe it will protect liberty in the future, they’re welcome to so believe whether or not I think it’s realistic.
 
or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations

---

This part is underrated as a factor in his problem with WCW.

If the local factory closes down and moves to China, the workers aren't supposed to be angry??? And why did that happen in the first place? Why would a company close a US factory in order to make the same thing in China and then ship it all the way back here? Obviously because it's cheaper due to their lack of labor and environmental standards.

From NAFTA to GATT to the TPP, the Democrats have been increasingly opposed to the interests of blue collar workers and have lost support accordingly.

Interestingly, that horrible comment became known around April 10 from what I can see on Google. If you look at the tracking poll Obama got a boost:

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/e...s/democratic_presidential_nomination-191.html

That indicates WCW were skeptical and the elitist remark confirmed their suspicions, so it "cost" him people who weren't in his camp anyway. But it was a very effective dog whistle for coastal urban progressives.
 
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Maybe push pro-labour laws, and repeal some of the older anti-union legislation. And if the corruption facilitated by Mossack Fonseca could be rooted out earlier, perhaps an undercover FBI agent is sent in to investigate, then Obama might be able to show he's fighting corruption. There was the issue where the IRS went after campaign finance and conservatives threw a fit because they felt targeted, even if a significant proportion of the organizations were Democrat. If a large defamation suit(or several) against Fox wins, or something else puts them out of business, there might be a normalization of political discourse.
 
From NAFTA to GATT to the TPO, the Democrats have been increasingly opposed to the interests of blue collar workers and have lost support accordingly.

Interestingly, that horrible comment became known around April 10 from what I can see on Google. If you look at the tracking poll Obama got a boost:

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/e...s/democratic_presidential_nomination-191.html

That indicates WCW were skeptical and the elitist remark confirmed their suspicions, so it "cost" him people who weren't in his camp anyway. But it was a very effective dog whistle for coastal urban progressives.
I ask, Obama was leading anyway, so why would he take this kind of risk?

And I look at baseline stats. His poll numbers were probably just continuing to rise. As an analogy, it’s really hard to separate out the effects of a new baseball pitching coach from the normal ups and downs the average baseball pitcher is highly likely to have anyway.
 
I ask, Obama was leading anyway, so why would he take this kind of risk?

Easy. His (in person) audience ate it up and he didn't think the general public would find out. Win-win, as long as the target of the insult never finds out.

Similar to 47%. And to some extent, basket of deplorables.
 

CalBear

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Long term they have every incentive to do just that already.

The problem is that maximum control is exerted by keeping people poor, but not too poor that they revolt.


I've suggested it before, but beheading the Koch Brothers and the Waltons in public execution would go literal miles to fixing the problems of the country.
Oh, HELL no!

Not only is this sort of advocacy of political violence completely unacceptable here it is also political flame-baiting outside of Chat.

Simply not happening.

Kicked for a week.
 
Japan did the same. Mitsubishi UFJ and Sumitomo/Mitsui became mega banks too. Mega banks can be nice but scale isn't always necessary. Several can get together to team up for larger loans. Mega banks just concentrate risk
Japan’s an interesting economic case study I’d like to dive in more. Japan has had a stagnant economy ever since a real estate crash in the mid ‘90s, although maybe with some recent comeback.

In fact, if anyone remembers it, there’s a Japanese word for young adults who still live at home and avoid going out during the daytime, which could variously be persons with clinical depression, and/or with social anxiety, and/or on the autism spectrum with sensory issues. Of course, lack of jobs and real opportunities doesn’t exactly help matters.
 
Japan’s an interesting economic case study I’d like to dive in more. Japan has had a stagnant economy ever since a real estate crash in the mid ‘90s, although maybe with some recent comeback.

In fact, if anyone remembers it, there’s a Japanese word for young adults who still live at home and avoid going out during the daytime, which could variously be persons with clinical depression, and/or with social anxiety, and/or on the autism spectrum with sensory issues. Of course, lack of jobs and real opportunities doesn’t exactly help matters.

Are you referring to hikikomori?
 
Easy. His (in person) audience ate it up and he didn't think the general public would find out. Win-win, as long as the target of the insult never finds out.

Similar to 47%. And to some extent, basket of deplorables.

This regards the April ‘08 statement by Sen. Obama at a San Francisco fundraiser: “ . . . like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. . . . . . they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or . . . ”

I’m not saying it didn’t happen for the very reason you say, but it would be a really unnecsssary risk in a race you’re leading anyway. It would what I’ve heard some poker players call “Fancy Play Syndrome.”

Yes, I can talk to a person one-on-one and it can remain private, maybe even talk to a group of three people and it remains private. But for me to give a speech to a whole group of people and expect it to remain private ? ? That’s way out there.

===============

I’ll add, not enough different things have replaced lost manufacturing jobs. We haven’t continued to grow the American middle class and that is a substantial missed opportunity.
 
https://www.google.com/amp/www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/04/27/union-membership/?amp=1

‘ . . . About a fifth (20.1%) of wage and salary workers belonged to a union in 1983, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. By last year [2014], that figure had plunged to 11.1%. (Unionization peaked in 1954 at 34.8% of all U.S. wage and salary workers, according to the Congressional Research Service.) . . . ’
So, union membership was never in a majority. But maybe plenty high enough to lead the way, set the norm, and improve conditions for a wider cross-section of workers.
 
This regards the April ‘08 statement by Sen. Obama at a San Francisco fundraiser: “ . . . like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. . . . . . they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or . . . ”

I’m not saying it didn’t happen for the very reason you say, but it would be a really unnecsssary risk in a race you’re leading anyway. It would what I’ve heard some poker players call “Fancy Play Syndrome.”

Yes, I can talk to a person one-on-one and it can remain private, maybe even talk to a group of three people and it remains private. But for me to give a speech to a whole group of people and expect it to remain private ? ? That’s way out there.

===============

I’ll add, not enough different things have replaced lost manufacturing jobs. We haven’t continued to grow the American middle class and that is a substantial missed opportunity.

It was stereotyping a large segment of our population, it seemed to reveal what he actually thought of those people, and confirmed in their minds (mine too admittedly) what was already suspected. Politicians have voting records, easily viewed by anyone wishing to do so, and his was viewed more than perhaps he realized. There is very little that will get the back up of an Appalachian faster than condescension and hypocrisy, and the comment on guns and religion had both in spades. People throughout the political spectrum often tend to view both opponents and supporters simplistically, denigrating their ability to ferret out a sense of the candidates actually motives and feelings, this almost always embitters both.
As to the lost manufacturing jobs, your absolutely correct. Additionally, many of the jobs currently out there haven't had any substantial wage growth for at least twenty years.
 
This regards the April ‘08 statement by Sen. Obama at a San Francisco fundraiser: “ . . . like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. . . . . . they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or . . . ”

I’m not saying it didn’t happen for the very reason you say, but it would be a really unnecsssary risk in a race you’re leading anyway. It would what I’ve heard some poker players call “Fancy Play Syndrome.”

Yes, I can talk to a person one-on-one and it can remain private, maybe even talk to a group of three people and it remains private. But for me to give a speech to a whole group of people and expect it to remain private ? ? That’s way out there.

===============

I’ll add, not enough different things have replaced lost manufacturing jobs. We haven’t continued to grow the American middle class and that is a substantial missed opportunity.

What jobs can be created though? Factories is going to be more automated and service jobs are going to be focused in cities.

What is interestinh why there is no massive move of rural population to urban areas, just like what happened in Chins.
 
. . condescension and hypocrisy, and the comment on guns and religion had both in spades. .
I agree.

Like he doesn’t get that some people are religious and spiritual, even when things are going very well in their lives. And yes, although they can be irritating if they harp on religion or give a sales pitch when you just want a friend to listen.

Like he doesn’t get that some people believe having a good gun is patriotic in case things get really bad. Although I’d add that if we turn fascist or communist or other hardcore authoritarian, it most likely will use our normal symbols of patriotism. And I wish Sen. Obama had more focused on this aspect.
 
. . stereotyping a large segment of our population, . .
Even if Obama is an elitist, and in my universe he isn’t, for I think he does try to build bridges and does a number of things right, but even if he was, it would still be hard to explain this big a mistake. Maybe he and his speech writers just got frustrated and pissed off writing meaningful speech after meaningful speech, only to have all of it completely ignored, so they jazzed it up and jazzed it up, and in the last minute rush for a seemingly routine event . . . still hard to explain.

There was a news article about Sen. Obama talking with a fellow Democrat about how to say something to small town and rural Americans that was both honest and hopeful. I think the news article came out in the Summer of 2008 after he had the nomination wrapped up but before the main push of the general election, and this part was about a conversation well before the Democratic primary season.
 
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What jobs can be created though? Factories is going to be more automated and service jobs are going to be focused in cities.

What is interestinh why there is no massive move of rural population to urban areas, . . .
You are speaking my language. :) I am a believer in what I call “The Coming Automation Crisis.” I realize not everyone is, nor are you required to be.

From the graph which I put in the second post on page 1, I’d point out that there’s been a slow increase of income inequality the last 40+ years. There is still a lot of middle class left. It’s a winnable situation and we have abundant opportunities and to make some smart changes and see how they go. And we should do so.
 
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Even if Obama is an elitist, and in my universe he isn’t, for I think he does try to build bridges and does a number of things right, but even if he was, it would still be hard to explain this big a mistake. Maybe he and his speech writers just got frustrated and pissed off writing meaningful speech after meaningful speech, only to have all of it completely ignored, so they jazzed it up and jazzed it up, and in the last minute rush for a seemingly routine event . . . still hard to explain.

There was a news article about Sen. Obama talking with a fellow Democrat about how to say something to small town and rural Americans that was both honest and hopeful. I think the news article came out in the Summer of 2008 after he had the nomination wrapped up but before the main push of the general election, and this part was about a conversation well before the Democratic primary season.

Stereotyping? Perhaps? But Is it inaccurate? The world is changing fast and people need to keep up too. Government help is need for those who want to change, but peopld need to recognize that the good old days are gone forever.

You are speaking my language. :) I am a believer in what I call “The Coming Automation Crisis.” I realize not everyone is, nor are you required to be.

From the graph which I put in the second post on page 1, I’d point out that there’s been a slow increase of income inequality the last 40+ years. There is still a lot of middle class left. It’s a winnable situation and we have abundant opportunities and to make some smart changes and see how they go. And we should do so.

This so call crisis started decades ago. The world is moving to a smarter economy. In China, rural working adult rush to cities as the jobs are there, often leaving children to be take care by grandparents. There are social consequences, but that's how China modernized, by embracing urbanization and forcing the rural area to change.

With factories moving away from China, the rural population squating in cities are now used to build the largest express delivery which all the meals and shopping apps used to great effect.
 
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