A monk in 14th-century Italy wrote about the Americas
That was long before Christopher Columbus set sail
Let a dozen early European re-discovery of America timelines bloom.
Pre-Columbian knowledge confirmed: A monk in 14th-century Italy wrote about the Americas
- Thread starter Strategos' Risk
- Start date
Let a dozen early European re-discovery of America timelines bloom.
It’s not surprising, despite the semi-popular revision that Columbus was an idiot who just stupidly bumbled his way to safety by getting lucky, there was clearly something there. He got what it was (thinking it just meant Asia) but the fact that some landmass was there was not impossible.
That said, to address the point about the lack of the North American seaboard…uh, they sort of did. Like, not actually the American seaboard, but mapmakers drew random extra land all the time. It’s the basis of that twit Gavin Menzies’s whole idiocy about China totes discovering America first, colonizing it, and then just going home and erasing the whole thing.
That said, to address the point about the lack of the North American seaboard…uh, they sort of did. Like, not actually the American seaboard, but mapmakers drew random extra land all the time. It’s the basis of that twit Gavin Menzies’s whole idiocy about China totes discovering America first, colonizing it, and then just going home and erasing the whole thing.
So if these legends and tall tales were known to seamen, that means earlier Columbuses could have existed, right? We could presuppose any navigator who found a willing sponsor could have gone west. Hence the potential for more timelines.
I like the idea that Columbus and others supporting his voyage had an idea there was something there from historical sources, even if those source were rather vague. It makes a lot more sense, given their actions.
Earlier Columbuses emphatically did not exist. Whether you regard the man as a hero, villain, or somewhere in between, his important role in history was not discovering America. Even putting aside the Native Americans, scholars have been perfectly willing to accept credible claims of Old World explorers happening upon the New World before 1492 for decades now, the most widely-accepted example being the the Norse in Vinland. No, Columbus was important because his voyages helped open up the Americas to European trade and settlement, which radically changed the course of history. But the Columbian Exchange as we know it was only made possible by a specific confluence of political, economic, and technological circumstances that probably could not have been matched significantly before they did in our world.
No, I mean it’s conceivable that such figures could exist in alternate history because there was foreknowledge about the lands of the Norse voyages in medieval Europe that could be pursued, not that such a figure did actually exist.
This board has a good amount of Muslim discovery of the Americas timelines, but few pre-Colombian European discovery timelines, besides the Norse. One notable exception is @carlton_bach ’s The Vivaldi Journeys, which I hope will return one day.
The Vivaldi Journeys
The young Lazarene gasped, nearly overwhelmed by the stench of the close-packed ergastulum. He had been prepared spiritually during his novitiate, but the physical reality of the suffering sent a cold shiver down his spine. With a brief prayer mumbled under his breath, he proceeded along the...
www.alternatehistory.com
I don’t exactly know why it’s so astonishing that people outside of Northern Europe had heard of Vinland or Markland, it’s not like it was a closely guarded secret or anything. Even if Scandinavia was a little isolated, the names of those islands shows up several times in English and German sources, often written by clergymen - who were certainly in international contact.
Crazy Boris
Banned
Between this and the Toscanelli map, Columbus’ idea of sailing west goes from being a bit of a crapshoot it’s easy to assume it as at first to actually being kind of a brilliant idea and it’s 100% understandable why he decided to risk it.
I’m surprised no one thought to try it before him now.
Before this we didn't really have any solid written examples of this supposition. What English and German sources have mentioned those lands?
Yeah, if it was really so not-rare knowledge, weird that no one else tried before, other than the Zeno brothers.
kholieken
Banned
Columbus math is bad. Everybody knew Asia is a lot farther than what Columbus think.
Remember that expedition is to find route to Asia, which Columbus failed, not about finding Islands on the West.
Isn't the theory that Columbus actually knew the true distance but lied because the distance he cited would be easier to gain royal support with?
Basques were early too, as early as the high Middle Ages if I remember correctly.
The problem isn't getting to the Americas since the Norse and others could do it, it's doing it at a time anybody would care.
We know how it turned out so it's hard to imagine a reaction of *shrug* "So what?"
Who to those people who don’t know was a pretty major scholar even at the time.
Unfortunately the Norse were far too north for chili peppers.
I wonder if a trade route could get some far enough north the Norse can encounter them and start heading south.