2 seems highly likely in any timeline. Such a far flung autocratic empire isn't likely to hold together.
Pre 1900 Alt history tropes
- Thread starter TheReal_McChicken
- Start date
2 seems highly likely in any timeline. Such a far flung autocratic empire isn't likely to hold together.
Japan will always turn isolationist. The only way Japan won't be isolationist is if they become Christian or if the Mongols conquer them. Further, the Shogunate will always rule Japan until they're inevitably defeated and the Emperor (either Kenmu or Meiji, no exceptions) restored. Restoring the Emperor always makes Japan stronger. Japan needs very special circumstances to want to expand into Hokkaido. It's just as likely the Russians will conquer the island and it will be Russian-speaking as it will be Japanese.
Korea remains unimportant to any TL set before the Russo-Japanese War. It's only fate is to be colonised by either Russia or Japan, assuming it does not manage to conquer Manchuria.
The only Southeast Asian country which can escape colonisation is Siam. Everything else will inevitably be colonised by Europeans. Burma, Vietnam, etc. have zero chance.
Chinese America is by far the most likely East Asian America. Japan, Korea, etc. have no chance at it. Excuses will always exist for China wanting to engage in voyages and expeditions like that but never for Japan or Korea.
Korea remains unimportant to any TL set before the Russo-Japanese War. It's only fate is to be colonised by either Russia or Japan, assuming it does not manage to conquer Manchuria.
The only Southeast Asian country which can escape colonisation is Siam. Everything else will inevitably be colonised by Europeans. Burma, Vietnam, etc. have zero chance.
Very true. Vinland can't succeed without Leif, and Chinese America can't succeed without Zheng He being involved, although the latter isn't as common here I notice since it's become almost as much of a cliche as "CSA abolishes slavery by 1875 and becomes a superpower". You also never see in Chinese America scenarios the groundwork needed to colonise the West Coast, that is, all the island hopping you need to cross the Pacific (either the "short" route up the coast of Japan to Kamchatka and Alaska or the Manila galleon route).
Chinese America is by far the most likely East Asian America. Japan, Korea, etc. have no chance at it. Excuses will always exist for China wanting to engage in voyages and expeditions like that but never for Japan or Korea.
The "Look To The West" TL actually show us that it was indeed possible for Spain to keep at least part of its empire
Valdemar Daae
Banned
I must say one real issue that bothers me is the trope of TLs with PoDs before 1900 suffering 'space-filling syndrome', whereby the entire world or vast majority of it is inevitably claimed by organised states with solid borders a la OTL Western nations. It gets worse the further back the PoD goes, but frankly there's very little guarantee that the European colonial strategy of claiming land for the sake of it will be adhered to by anyone, especially across the entire globe's wastelands, poorly-governed and underdeveloped regions. Related to this I take issue with the idea that somehow many TLs are left with nothing but organised internationally-engaged states with exclusive Westphalian sovereignty, and any other forms of polity somehow disappear or become steamrolled by globalized diplomacy. There shouldn't be any guarantee for it based on butterflies alone, let alone any situation without New Imperialism or transnational diplomatic organisations.
Another application for them involves using them as "voluntary" colonists for Liberia or Antarctica or whatever other place the US wants to take over.
One thing I like about Malê Rising is that it's an explicitly post-Westphalian world, if it helps.