Hey, it was a pretty shit design, but it had been to Norway before. Many German designs left a lot to be desired, legacy of having no continuity in regards a design team.
PQ 17.5
- Thread starter johnboy
- Start date
well that and not really knowing what the planned fleet mix was for a long ass time. Because their light cruisers for example seem more like minelayers than anything else
Isn't this battle group weak? There are only two battleships... Germany has Bismarck and Tirpitz ie. 2:2. The British would not risk such an unfavorable balance of power. If the RN has no other combat-capable modern battleship available, it would likely request US assistance. The Americans have a fully combat-ready USS North Carolina...
Earmarked for the Pacific with the Wasp Task Force. It cannot be underestimated how short on heavy ships the allies were in early to mid 1942. The only ship the British had in theater not working up, under refit or repair was Malaya. KGV, QE, Valiant under repair, Rodney refit, Nelson on her to the Indian Ocean, Warspite and the R's Eastern Fleet. Renown Med. Barham, Royal Oak, POW, Hood, Repulse all sunk. Anson working up. US had nothing except slow 20 knot ships, except South Dak working up..
Rodney is in company with Nelson in Freetown on 17th June OTL, FWIW.
I wonder though if ITTL's Denmark Strait result of Hood for Prinz Eugen wouldn't have a more dramatic impact on the RN's thinking? This is an unarguable calamity, as the wily Boche has come out to play in ourNorth Sea, blown the pride of the Andrew in half demonstrating that there is still something wrong with our bloody ships, and got away with it.
As in, I don't think all those Rs are going to the Eastern Fleet while Bismarck is still out there lurking - or if they are, it's because POW and Repulse aren't.
I wonder though if ITTL's Denmark Strait result of Hood for Prinz Eugen wouldn't have a more dramatic impact on the RN's thinking? This is an unarguable calamity, as the wily Boche has come out to play in ourNorth Sea, blown the pride of the Andrew in half demonstrating that there is still something wrong with our bloody ships, and got away with it.
As in, I don't think all those Rs are going to the Eastern Fleet while Bismarck is still out there lurking - or if they are, it's because POW and Repulse aren't.
I was just having a thunk - dangerous I know
But if Bismarck was not sunk would the RN still send POW and Repulse to the Far East given the shortage of fast and or Modern BBs in the Western Allied OOB?
They did like to try and maintain a 2:1 advantage
But if Bismarck was not sunk would the RN still send POW and Repulse to the Far East given the shortage of fast and or Modern BBs in the Western Allied OOB?
They did like to try and maintain a 2:1 advantage
yeah if Bismark is around force Z ain't happening unless someone gives the RN the rest of the KGVs finished and worked up. ideally throw in the 1st 2 lions and vanguard as well
Interesting thought, if Force Z isn't sent because of the threat posed by the Bismarck, what could the British do instead? Maybe send out some better commanders and 50 or so Matildas with directions to just hold Singapore and forget the rest of Malaya? They had troops, the Japanese just outmanuevered them in the jungle. Pulling back to try to hold something like the Korean War's Pusan perimeter around Singapore might have worked better.
Unfortunately Singapore needs to be defended from the Kra Isthmus and the south China sea - if Malaya and then DEI is in the hands of the Japanese Singapore is untenable.
Err, why? I understand that it could not be held indefinitely if cut off by sea, but why couldn't it hold out for a year or so. Was all the water near the Kra isthmus?
IIRC one of the reasons Singapore surrendered because the water supply came from the mainland. If they are holding a perimeter at least 30 miles from the island itself (outside anything except really long range artillery) there should be some wells inside the perimeter.
In addition, if the British are holding a continuous front with trenches and bunkers, Japanese infiltration tactics become much harder.
Where are the USN Cruisers Wichita, Tuscaloosa (Heavy/8") and Nashville(Light/6")and CV Ranger all were Atlantic Fleet and served with RN Home Fleet?
Wichita and Tuscaloosa are with the escorts. Ranger had just retu8rned from a ferry mission to Africa. Nashville was in the Pacific post March 1942.
LIkely so. Poor weather condition are not hard to find in that part of the world...
An interesting scenario. For all their weakneses at long range the B & T armor schemes is MUCH better up close and personal. Its not the BB’s that favor the allies
The advantage in Allied Radar wold surely be telling?
DOY and the 4 cruisers managed to slap S about in an Arctic snow storm
And POWs 3 hits on B were at best mission killing - Fuel hit, machinary room hit and the 3rd hit rendered the Amphib U/S (which somehow was not discovered at the time)
Yes, in zero visibility the Allies win, 10 km the axis, 20 km the Allies again.
While sinking a ship is the best way to take it out of service, a mission kill is a good second. No more sinkings as it makes its (high risk) voyage home, no sorties until repaired, and the opportunity to keep it in port by bombing raids etc.
Germans rarely managed to get the 'weather gauge' during SAG actions vs the RN and I am not convinced that the Axis have the 10km fight either
At 10 km its a case of no one not even Yamato's or hell even the most armored of the Tillman designs has armor rated to keep capital grade firepower out. With perhaps the exception of the germans 11" guns