Power of Hungary without Turkish occupation

  • Thread starter Deleted member 1487
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Deleted member 1487

Assuming the Turks never manage to conquer Hungary, let's say due to King Matthias having lawful heirs to carry on his legacy, who keep out the Turks, how powerful would Hungary have become? From what I know of the period the constant wars in Hungarian territory seriously ruined the country and ravaged the population, leaving it a rural appendage to Austria until the 19th century. From what I gather prior to the Turkish wars Hungary was one of the most powerful kingdoms in the region and could have been a major European power if not for its relatively early decimation in the Balkan wars. Would it have been a powerful kingdom on its own if it outlasts the Turkish threat without being occupied and taken over by the Habsburgs?
 
I'm skeptical. Hungary suffered a sharp decline in the late-15th Century, accelerated by peasant militarism and attempts by neighboring powers to exert influence. If the Ottomans don't conquer it, somebody else will.

Keep in mind Poland held down a similar eminence in Europe for some centuries. Not a word needs to be said of the last 500 years.
 
With Turks at doors, even if not in Hungary itself, the country is going to give many of its ressources on warfare and eventually to form some alliance (on which its predominance is not guaranteed at all) in order to push back campaigns : you could actually end with more ravages in Hungary due to more regular raids.

Austria, notably, is still going to be a really important rivals with more ressources for regional hegemony, and Hungary would be bound to concede it for support against Ottomans.

Hungary's decline already began (while not bound to happen) in the late Middle-Ages, having to compete with Adriatic or Central European powers, but critically due to dynastic instability and a limitation of royal power that favoured aristocratic unstability.
The creation of rural groups tied to royal power directly was kind of needed by Corvinus to overrule that.

Finally, lutherianism or alt-protestantism can easily end being another factor of division in Hungary : it would isolate the hungrian kings or geopolitically or in its own realm.

I don't think it would have became a powerful kingdom, but admittedly, more in Austrian sphere of influence and possibily more rich benefitting from still controlled mines and trade axes in Central Europe, but the rural predominance and limited royal power is going to last.
 
If you want to keep Hungary a powerful nation then you have to start with a POD a few years befor the death of Hunyadi Mátyás. The political instabilitz after his death lead to the downfal of Hungary. The battle of Mohács and espetially the next 200 years depopulated the country and stoped any and all economical and political growth. It was so bad that almost 1/3dh of the population died? So if you stop that then you can get a powerful country, not a greait power that it once was but at least a middle power witch could counterbalance the russians and ottomans on the regional scale. Then even the fall of the Polish / Lithuanian Comonwealth is not scerten
 
It would ultimately fall under the sway of Russia or a German power be that Austria or something else that develops.
 

Deleted member 1487

If you want to keep Hungary a powerful nation then you have to start with a POD a few years befor the death of Hunyadi Mátyás. The political instabilitz after his death lead to the downfal of Hungary. The battle of Mohács and espetially the next 200 years depopulated the country and stoped any and all economical and political growth. It was so bad that almost 1/3dh of the population died? So if you stop that then you can get a powerful country, not a greait power that it once was but at least a middle power witch could counterbalance the russians and ottomans on the regional scale. Then even the fall of the Polish / Lithuanian Comonwealth is not scerten
Would it be able to stand up to Austria and hold the Turks at the same time though?
 
The latest possible POD for this is the Angevin period. Either give Louis a son, or provide him with a clear male successor, maddied to one of his daughters, perhaps, and, if possible, keep Poland from falling to his heirs too.
 
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