One possibly is that they become the de facto opposition party in certain parts of the country, for example they could eclipse the Republicans in the South & the Democrats in the Northeast while carving out sections of the west/great lakes for themselves. Their more-or-less equal focus on rural & urban workers could allow them to act as a compromise vote in certain toss-up districts.
Probably the most realistic. Also @delariva since the Nationals will be pushing reforms I'd like to recommend two:
  1. Language could be added in the income tax amendment to also legalize land value taxation at the federal level.
  2. A two-round presidential popular vote like they have in France would be cool. A constitutional amendment for it nearly passed under Nixon of all people. The OTL example had an instant-win condition where whoever got 40% or higher on the first round would win outright.
I used both for my King in Yellow TL, where Georgism becomes one of the core planks of the technocratic anti-revolution socialist party.
 
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So if I understand this america effectively a multiparty party state where Socialists and Georgist have real political power. That's a fun concept to say the least.
 
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So if I understand this america effectively a multiparty party state where Socialists and Georgist have real political power. That's a fun concept to say the least.
The party system was deeply in flux at the time OTL, absent some structural changes it's almost certain to devolve into a two-party system again within a generation or so.
 
Another interesting reform idea that fits the rough time frame is the amendment in Reds! that low-key turns the Congress into a semi-parliamentary system. I'm including the others in the quoted post because although you're not doing a Socialist US TL they're still solid ideas for proposals at the very least, especially if you include LVT language in the income tax amendment as I mentioned.
Amendments to the US Constitution, 1905-1913

Sixteenth Amendment (Ratified July 18th, 1909)

§ One: The executive power shall be vested in the President of the United States; and in the Cabinet of the United States, consisting of the various Secretaries in charge of the executive departments, the First Secretary, and such other officers of the House of Representatives as determined by law.
The First Secretary and Secretaries of the Cabinet shall be elected by the House of Representatives without debate on the proposal of the President. The person who receives the majority vote of the House of Representatives shall be appointed by the President.
Members of the Cabinet may serve concurrently as members of the House of Representatives.

§ Two: The House of Representatives may express its lack of confidence in the Cabinet only by electing successors by majority vote of the members and requesting the President to dismiss the Cabinet. The President must comply with this request and appoint the successors.
If a motion of the First Secretary for a vote of confidence is not supported by a majority of members of the House of Representatives, the President may dissolve the House of Representatives, and order new elections to occur within twenty one days of dissolution.

§ Three: Save the following provisions, the House of Representatives shall be elected for four years. Its term shall end when a new House convenes. New elections shall be held no sooner than forty-six months and no later than forty-eight months after the electoral term begins. If the House be dissolved, new elections shall be held within sixty days.
The House of Representatives shall convene no later than thirty days following election.

Seventeenth Amendment (Ratified October 7th, 1910)

§ One:The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

§ Two: The Congress shall have the power to regulate Commerce within the United States; specifically with respect to the fair standards of safe labor, the regulation of the operations of trusts, corporations, cartels, trade unions and other such commercial combinations.

§ Three: The Congress shall have the power to establish a national bank.

Eighteenth Amendment (Ratified October 7th, 1912)

§ One: The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex.

§ Two: The right of citizens to form associations within and between political parties shall not be infringed. Neither the United States, nor any State, shall prohibit electoral fusion as a matter of free association in all elections.

§ Three: Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.
 
Love seeing Bellamy! Also I'm a huge fan of divergent political parties and symbols, the beaver was a good choice. The potential of a future formal unification into a single National Party has interesting knock-on effects for the Democrats, while staying true to the period meaning of "national" to refer to "nationalization".
Appreciate it! And the effects they'll have on coalitions over the 1890s definitely make it very different from OTL. Don't want to spoil so I won't comment on the speculations about the possible party system that's developing but I love to see the discussion, hope you guys are happy with what happens. Working on the maps now but the 1892 elections should be posted in the next few days.

On the recommended reforms, explicitly carving out LVT in the income tax amendment is interesting I probably will include that in their demands once an income tax amendment starts to cement as an idea. Those amendments were always one of my favorite aspects of Reds, and I definitely take inspiration from them much later, but that era is entirely planned out. Electoral reforms are 100% going to be a very concrete demand that comes into play once the National parties win statewide or locally, we'll see how that goes...
 

SuperZtar64

Banned
Henry George losing the mayoral election was an avoidable travesty. Hopefully land value taxes become widespread and things like the introduction of the income tax can be averted. Watched.
 
Henry George losing the mayoral election was an avoidable travesty. Hopefully land value taxes become widespread and things like the introduction of the income tax can be averted. Watched.
I don't know that it can (or should) be averted, at the very least it should be an option open to the government. One benefit of entrenched Georgism (ideally coupled with an antiracist component) is that a significantly strong push for it early enough could butterfly the redlining and white flight that characterized postwar housing policy and in turn are the root cause of most modern racial inequality/animus.
 

SuperZtar64

Banned
I don't know that it can (or should) be averted, at the very least it should be an option open to the government. One benefit of entrenched Georgism (ideally coupled with an antiracist component) is that a significantly strong push for it early enough could butterfly the redlining and white flight that characterized postwar housing policy and in turn are the root cause of most modern racial inequality/animus.
I suppose there are worse taxes out there. I mean, ideally there would be no other taxes at all besides a land value tax but I don't know how achievable that would be in practice.
 
Part 3 - 1892 Elections

1892 Presidential Election:​

With debates about currency, tariffs, and the recent Panic being front of mind for most voters, the campaign centered around economic arguments. Harrison defended his protectionist and bimetallist policies as bolstering the industrial and agrarian sectors respectively, and wishing to extend both further. Bayard came out strongly against tariffs and bimetallism, advocating the same Gold Standard position as Cleveland. Bayard was strongly opposed to the Lodge Bill and black civil rights, making numerous racist remarks during the campaign in his speeches across the South. This was far more problematic among Northern voters than when Cleveland had done similarly given Bayard’s history as a Confederate sympathizer and drawl in his accent. Gresham for his part tried to distinguish his campaign by focusing on issues outside the mainstream, like taking on monopolies, Land-Value Tax, reducing work hours, and nationalizing rail, banks, telegraph lines, & mail. On the mainstream issues, Gresham took a more radical bimetallist position, advocated low tariffs, and was in favor of black civil rights. The campaign was overall tepid with minimal mudslinging between candidates. The campaign ended abruptly two weeks before election day, when on October 25 First Lady Caroline Harrison died, having suffered poor health her entire life and a deep bout of tuberculosis the last 6 months of her life. Benjamin Harrison would not appear publicly during or immediately after the election, spending time with his son and daughter.

screencapture-mockelections-miraheze-org-w-index-php-2022-11-11-17_36_04.png


Results:
444 Electors, 223 needed for a majority
Turnout: 76.2% — (12,753,583 votes)

Benjamin Harrison/Chauncey Depew (Republican): 234 EV, 39.91% of the popular vote — 4,984,705 votes
Thomas Bayard/Robert Pattison (Democratic): 118 EV, 42.76% of the popular vote — 5,341,496 votes
Walter Gresham/James G. Field (Labor, People’s, & Prohibition): 92 EV, 17.22% of the popular vote — 2,149,582 votes


Benjamin Harrison had lost the popular vote to Thomas Bayard by more than 350,000 votes and regardless won an electoral vote majority and the presidency. Walter Gresham largely drew his votes from former Democratic voters, especially in the Midwest, where the rural and urban working classes were put off by Thomas Bayard. Particularly notable was just how narrow this election was on the state level, with the results of 6 separate states being determined by less than a percentage point of the vote. It’s been predicted that had Gresham never entered the race, Bayard could have easily won the election. This theory is supported by the congressional results, which seemed to reflect a continued firmly Democratic national mood. Gresham’s strong overperformance would get the National parties on the ballot in every state, with both the People’s and Labor parties setting up state affiliates in each state

1892 House Election:​

1892 house.png

1892 districts.png

Results:
356 Representatives, 179 needed for a majority

Democrats: 187 seats, 44.1% of the vote (-34)
Republicans: 109 seats, 40.2% of the vote (+29)
Nationals: 60 seats, 16.4% of the vote (+29)
People’s Party: 40 seats, 10.3% of the vote (+20)
Labor: 17 seats, 4.5% of the vote (+6)
Prohibition: 2 seats, 0.4% of the vote (+2)
Silver Party: 1 seat, 0.008% of the vote (+1)


Charles F. Crisps’s Democrats were reduced to a slim 8-seat majority, losing 35 races even as the House added 24 new seats due to reapportionment, even still, the Democrats remained the largest party by a wide margin. The small Democratic majority and Harrison’s re-election meant compromise would be necessary on any given policy, and with Crisp not willing to negotiate on the tariff issue, addressing the silver/gold debate once more seemed likely. Even as the Republicans expanded their caucus, the headline was again the shocking growth of the People’s Party, particularly in the South, where they gained 11 new representatives across states like Arkansas, North Carolina, and Alabama. The People’s Party would also gain the governorships of Kansas, Nebraska, Pembina, North Carolina, South Carolina, Colorado, Minnesota, and Alabama, beginning prolonged fights with often combative state legislatures.

The new National MCs were:
AL-5: Albert T. Goodwyn
AL-8: Milford W. Howard
AR-3: Isom Langley
AR-5: Jacob P. Carnahan
CA-4: James G. Maguire
CO-1: Lafayette Pence
CO-2: John C. Bell
GA-7: Seaborn Wright
IA-11: Sylvester B. Crane
ID At-Large: Frank Steunenberg

IN-13: Benjamin Shively
LA-3: John N. Pharr
MN-7: Kittel Halvorson
MS-4: Frank Burkitt
NC-1: Harry Skinner
NE-3: Samuel Maxwell
NE-4: William L. Stark
NV-At Large: Francis G. Newlands

NY-13: Edward McGlynn
NY-25: Ralph Beaumont
OH-21: Tom L. Johnson
PA-3: Rudolph Blankenburg

PA-14: Silas S. Swallow
SC-3: Benjamin Tillman
TN-7: Edward H. East

TX-7: Charles W. Macune
VA-7: James G. Field

Second Benjamin Harrison Cabinet:​

A beleaguered President Harrison would keep his cabinet largely intact from his first term, having proudly appointed secretaries based on merit and not patronage or political favors. In a transparent concession to the Stalwarts, Harrison would fire Treasury Secretary Charles Foster and have him replaced by New York Republican boss Thomas C. Platt, promising Foster a Senate seat in Ohio whenever one became available.

2nd harrison cabinet.png


Vice President: Chauncey Depew
Secretary of State: John W. Foster (Replaced Blaine in Feb. 1892)
Secretary of the Treasury: Thomas C. Platt (Replacing Charles Foster)
Secretary of War: Stephen B. Elkins (Replaced Proctor in Nov. 1891)
Attorney General: William H. H. Miller
Postmaster General: John Wanamaker
Secretary of the Navy: Benjamin F. Tracy
Secretary of the Interior: John W. Noble
Secretary of Agriculture: Jeremiah M. Rusk


Harrison had barely wanted to run for a second term at all and thus spent much of the transition period before his second inauguration on vacation in the Adirondacks. Unfortunately for the depressed President Harrison, he would be rushed back to Washington in February with reports that the worst economic recession in all of American history up to that point had just begun…
 

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Democrats: 187 seats, 44.1% of the vote (-34)
Republicans: 109 seats, 40.2% of the vote (+29)
Nationals: 60 seats, 16.4% of the vote (+29)
People’s Party: 40 seats, 10.3% of the vote (+20)
Labor: 17 seats, 4.5% of the vote (+6)
Prohibition: 2 seats, 0.4% of the vote (+2)
Silver Party: 1 seat, 0.008% of the vote (+1)


Charles F. Crisps’s Democrats were reduced to a slim 8-seat majority, losing 35 races even as the House added 24 new seats due to reapportionment, even still, the Democrats remained the largest party by a wide margin. The small Democratic majority and Harrison’s re-election meant compromise would be necessary on any given policy, and with Crisp not willing to negotiate on the tariff issue, addressing the silver/gold debate once more seemed likely. Even as the Republicans expanded their caucus, the headline was again the shocking growth of the People’s Party, particularly in the South, where they gained 11 new representatives across states like Arkansas, North Carolina, and Alabama. The People’s Party would also gain the governorships of Kansas, Nebraska, Pembina, Nebraska, North Carolina, South Carolina, Colorado, Minnesota, and Alabama, starting numerous vigorous debates within these states.
Any particular reason why the Republican party won't caucus with the other third parties?
 
Any particular reason why the Republican party won't caucus with the other third parties?
Same reason they didn't align with the Populists irl, just very few policy agreements on key issues like tariffs and no reason to unite against the Democrats.
Also even if they did it wouldn't matter as even all together the Republicans/Nationals only have a total of 169 seats to the Democrats 187 so as long as the Democrats remain united they can pass bills on their own.

Ah the crash of 1893. How they respond to this crisis could determine the longevity of both the National Alliance as a coalition but indeed the individual members.

Speaking of forming a response, the Crash cost the Democrats 4 consecutive elections OTL, let's see how well President Harrison guides the Republicans through these trying times.
 
If I had to guess as to how the timeline plays out, my guess is that before any parliamentary style reforms or full on 3 party system comes into play, the Nationals will have to act as mediator in a sort of 2.5 party system. If the electoral college ends up deadlocked, the Republicans and Democrats would have to seriously consider caucusing with them to win elections and pass legislature, or outright ignore them and work with each other to stop their influence. Though, honestly, considering the gilded age, the latter happening wouldn't surprise me.
 
If I had to guess as to how the timeline plays out, my guess is that before any parliamentary style reforms or full on 3 party system comes into play, the Nationals will have to act as mediator in a sort of 2.5 party system. If the electoral college ends up deadlocked, the Republicans and Democrats would have to seriously consider caucusing with them to win elections and pass legislature, or outright ignore them and work with each other to stop their influence. Though, honestly, considering the gilded age, the latter happening wouldn't surprise me.
Assuming the Republicans shed Progressives to the Nationals and the Bourbon Democrats are able to form a united front with the remnant based on the issues of goldbuggery, not changing the constitution, and keeping the rabble in their place (especially if the antiracist strain within the OTL Populists becomes more pronounced) what would be a good name for the new conservative electoral alliance/party? The name Democratic-Republicans is overused and played out so something like the Constitutional Union Party would be interesting, since it has a historical precedent for a party whose entire purpose is "the constitution is perfect and shouldn't be changed at all" 🤔
I eagerly await the day Progress and Poverty becomes required reading in all American schools :love:
Hear hear!
 
Assuming the Republicans shed Progressives to the Nationals and the Bourbon Democrats are able to form a united front with the remnant based on the issues of goldbuggery, not changing the constitution, and keeping the rabble in their place (especially if the antiracist strain within the OTL Populists becomes more pronounced) what would be a good name for the new conservative electoral alliance/party? The name Democratic-Republicans is overused and played out so something like the Constitutional Union Party would be interesting, since it has a historical precedent for a party whose entire purpose is "the constitution is perfect and shouldn't be changed at all" 🤔

Hear hear!
I would say, this relies pretty heavily on America defaulting to a two party system. Conservatives in the Republican and Democratic parties certainly had policy and cultural disagreements around this time (Conservative Dems were based in the solid south and Conservative Reps largely in the northeast, waring against eachother less than 30 years ago). Unless one of the 2 parties gets overtaken for 2nd in the congress or electoral college and there was significant chance for a really radical National Party president I’d imagine the D’s and R’s remain separate until further notice.

Its also important to consider how the National Alliance will hold as it grows and potentially gains legislative/executive power, and which parties in the alliance are more satisfied with what it can get done.
 
I would say, this relies pretty heavily on America defaulting to a two party system. Conservatives in the Republican and Democratic parties certainly had policy and cultural disagreements around this time (Conservative Dems were based in the solid south and Conservative Reps largely in the northeast, waring against eachother less than 30 years ago). Unless one of the 2 parties gets overtaken for 2nd in the congress or electoral college and there was significant chance for a really radical National Party president I’d imagine the D’s and R’s remain separate until further notice.
The "default to a two-party system" is the most likely outcome, since absent wide-ranging structural change it's by far the most common result based on the structure of the American electoral system. The only exceptions have been periods when the party system is in flux and shifting, and those never tend to last more than a generation.
Its also important to consider how the National Alliance will hold as it grows and potentially gains legislative/executive power, and which parties in the alliance are more satisfied with what it can get done.
This is true. It's entirely possible some members of the Alliance decide to shoot themselves in the head and try to strike out on their own.
 
As I was rereading the most recent chapter, I noticed something that I'd like to clarify.

When you list the states that elected People's party governors, you list Nebraska twice. Did you mean to put a different state there or what?
 
As I was rereading the most recent chapter, I noticed something that I'd like to clarify.

When you list the states that elected People's party governors, you list Nebraska twice. Did you mean to put a different state there or what?
Good old Nebraska, a unicameral legislature and two governors 😂
 
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