If you've kept up with my posts, you'll know that I've started a few Reverse Cold War threads; that is, a global standoff that takes place between a communist America and a capitalist Russia. Most of the approaches on this site, at least to me, seem to rely on rather doubtful post-1900 PODs. Free market capitalism is likely too entrenched in American society for a Marxist takeover, for example.
But because I’ve long been interested in the idea and may have found a way to make it work, perhaps I’ll start a Reverse Cold War TL myself, but with PoDs that take place long before 1900. As I’m a novice when it comes to understanding history--both real and alternate--I need your guys’ feedback if I’m to move forward with this undertaking. Maybe this coup is bound to fail, or that military too small to invade wherever. But I don’t know for sure, which is why I ask you, the Alternate History community, for input.
This timeline, for now titled Empires and Unions: The Cold War Reversed, commences with several PoDs that date back to the 18th Century, at most. A far greedier, but (initially) more pragmatic British Empire grants the Thirteen Colonies representation in Parliament and relaxes its mercantilist policies, which prevents the American Revolution from happening as it actually did. They conquer most of North America over the 19th Century, encompassing the combined land occupied by the modern United States and Canada IOTL. Once the Industrial Revolution begins, they intensify their Manifest Destiny-esque exploits. Industrialized slavery, strip mining, unchecked pollution and corporate malpractice proliferate the nearly unfettered capitalism strangling British North America (or BNA) at this time.
When World War One breaks out in 1914, the British double down on their excesses and conscript American colonists en masse to do most of the fighting for them. BNA’s industrial capacity is redirected to fueling the war effort and keeping the decadent British mainland afloat, leaving only scraps for an already oppressed population. Among the millions killed in the Great War are countless BNA colonists. Infuriated at their overseers and inspired by the work of Karl Marx, a socialist American Revolution occurs in 1918. After a bloody civil war against the anti-communist, but disunified Nationalists--many of whom flee to the land occupied by Greenland IOTL--the communists emerge victorious. The United States of America (or US/USA) is born.
The next few PoDs are significantly less fleshed out. Russia and China, both ruled by more competent and opportunistic leaders, open up to free trade and business-friendly policies in the 19th Century. The 1825 Decembrist Revolt succeeds in Russia and a liberally-minded constitutional monarchy is established. China never experiences the Opium Wars (as the British government is preoccupied with North America) or the Taiping Rebellion (Hong Xiuquan falls ill and dies early). To solve what internal problems that it still has, the Asian giant looks towards Great Britain--which happens to be experiencing the Industrial Revolution at this time--for inspiration.
Seeing untold opportunity in Russia and China, vast numbers of British capitalists, inventors and diplomats trade, travel and teach in both nations. They help set up factories, found universities and introduce mechanized labor. Before long, the newly dubbed Twin Titans threaten to outstrip Britain for economic freedom, technological progress and sheer industrial output. Russia abolishes slavery/serfdom in 1861, while China (on paper) follows suit in 1910. Because it’s capably led and thoroughly industrialized by 1914, the former performs far better during World War One than IOTL. China, which has built an oversized navy and domestic arms industry, successfully prevents Japanese invasion and sells munitions to the Entente.
What follows next is very blurry, comparatively unelaborate and especially in need of additional contemplation, but I’ll list some examples for your ability to further critique TTL. At the Great War’s end in 1918, the Twin Titans return to pre-war isolationism and consolidate their newly gained power. With Europe drained by war and America consumed by communism, the two become dominant commercial nations in the midst of the Roaring 20s. Russia and China also form their own “Special Relationship” analogous to that of the OTL US and UK, solidifying their already extensive free trade and intergovernmental collaboration with one another.
The Nazis still come to power in Germany and initiate World War Two, invading and occupying the same nations and implementing their signature policies. They still lose around 1945 due to Russian mobilization and America launching a dedicated “War of liberation” on the Axis Powers in 1941.
Meanwhile, China beats back the Japanese and liberates Korea, preventing it from being divided as it was IOTL. Worried about the US prosecuting its War in the Pacific, the Twin Titans agree to jointly invade the Japanese mainland and deny America its victory. Before they can do so, however, Hiroshima and Nagasaki are obliterated in gargantuan, mushroom-shaped explosions--the products of an unhinged America’s newest superweapon, the atomic bomb.
Russia, now the supreme military power of the world, liberates Northern Europe and implements Marshall Plan-esque rebuilding. With the partitioning of Europe into separate capitalist and communist regions, World War Two ends. Great Britain, dependent on Russo-Sino support and exhausted by the World Wars, has no choice but to decolonize. The next decade or so is characterized by America and the Twin Titans attempting to pick up the pieces. The Cold War has begun.
There’s more that I have in mind, such as an Alaskan War in the 1950s, a Japanese Missile Crisis, the various ancap/ancom territories that emerge, ultra-neoliberal China and a Russia analogous to the OTL United States, among other ideas. However, I lack the wherewithal to execute many of them, even more so than what I’ve written so far. I’ll leave that for the rest of the thread to discuss.
Nonetheless, what do you think of my proposed timeline idea?
Thank you in advance,
Zyobot
But because I’ve long been interested in the idea and may have found a way to make it work, perhaps I’ll start a Reverse Cold War TL myself, but with PoDs that take place long before 1900. As I’m a novice when it comes to understanding history--both real and alternate--I need your guys’ feedback if I’m to move forward with this undertaking. Maybe this coup is bound to fail, or that military too small to invade wherever. But I don’t know for sure, which is why I ask you, the Alternate History community, for input.
This timeline, for now titled Empires and Unions: The Cold War Reversed, commences with several PoDs that date back to the 18th Century, at most. A far greedier, but (initially) more pragmatic British Empire grants the Thirteen Colonies representation in Parliament and relaxes its mercantilist policies, which prevents the American Revolution from happening as it actually did. They conquer most of North America over the 19th Century, encompassing the combined land occupied by the modern United States and Canada IOTL. Once the Industrial Revolution begins, they intensify their Manifest Destiny-esque exploits. Industrialized slavery, strip mining, unchecked pollution and corporate malpractice proliferate the nearly unfettered capitalism strangling British North America (or BNA) at this time.
When World War One breaks out in 1914, the British double down on their excesses and conscript American colonists en masse to do most of the fighting for them. BNA’s industrial capacity is redirected to fueling the war effort and keeping the decadent British mainland afloat, leaving only scraps for an already oppressed population. Among the millions killed in the Great War are countless BNA colonists. Infuriated at their overseers and inspired by the work of Karl Marx, a socialist American Revolution occurs in 1918. After a bloody civil war against the anti-communist, but disunified Nationalists--many of whom flee to the land occupied by Greenland IOTL--the communists emerge victorious. The United States of America (or US/USA) is born.
The next few PoDs are significantly less fleshed out. Russia and China, both ruled by more competent and opportunistic leaders, open up to free trade and business-friendly policies in the 19th Century. The 1825 Decembrist Revolt succeeds in Russia and a liberally-minded constitutional monarchy is established. China never experiences the Opium Wars (as the British government is preoccupied with North America) or the Taiping Rebellion (Hong Xiuquan falls ill and dies early). To solve what internal problems that it still has, the Asian giant looks towards Great Britain--which happens to be experiencing the Industrial Revolution at this time--for inspiration.
Seeing untold opportunity in Russia and China, vast numbers of British capitalists, inventors and diplomats trade, travel and teach in both nations. They help set up factories, found universities and introduce mechanized labor. Before long, the newly dubbed Twin Titans threaten to outstrip Britain for economic freedom, technological progress and sheer industrial output. Russia abolishes slavery/serfdom in 1861, while China (on paper) follows suit in 1910. Because it’s capably led and thoroughly industrialized by 1914, the former performs far better during World War One than IOTL. China, which has built an oversized navy and domestic arms industry, successfully prevents Japanese invasion and sells munitions to the Entente.
What follows next is very blurry, comparatively unelaborate and especially in need of additional contemplation, but I’ll list some examples for your ability to further critique TTL. At the Great War’s end in 1918, the Twin Titans return to pre-war isolationism and consolidate their newly gained power. With Europe drained by war and America consumed by communism, the two become dominant commercial nations in the midst of the Roaring 20s. Russia and China also form their own “Special Relationship” analogous to that of the OTL US and UK, solidifying their already extensive free trade and intergovernmental collaboration with one another.
The Nazis still come to power in Germany and initiate World War Two, invading and occupying the same nations and implementing their signature policies. They still lose around 1945 due to Russian mobilization and America launching a dedicated “War of liberation” on the Axis Powers in 1941.
Meanwhile, China beats back the Japanese and liberates Korea, preventing it from being divided as it was IOTL. Worried about the US prosecuting its War in the Pacific, the Twin Titans agree to jointly invade the Japanese mainland and deny America its victory. Before they can do so, however, Hiroshima and Nagasaki are obliterated in gargantuan, mushroom-shaped explosions--the products of an unhinged America’s newest superweapon, the atomic bomb.
Russia, now the supreme military power of the world, liberates Northern Europe and implements Marshall Plan-esque rebuilding. With the partitioning of Europe into separate capitalist and communist regions, World War Two ends. Great Britain, dependent on Russo-Sino support and exhausted by the World Wars, has no choice but to decolonize. The next decade or so is characterized by America and the Twin Titans attempting to pick up the pieces. The Cold War has begun.
There’s more that I have in mind, such as an Alaskan War in the 1950s, a Japanese Missile Crisis, the various ancap/ancom territories that emerge, ultra-neoliberal China and a Russia analogous to the OTL United States, among other ideas. However, I lack the wherewithal to execute many of them, even more so than what I’ve written so far. I’ll leave that for the rest of the thread to discuss.
Nonetheless, what do you think of my proposed timeline idea?
Thank you in advance,
Zyobot
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