Potential Conflicts Following WWIII in 1962?

[marathag]

Then nuclear winter will descend on all of northern hemisphere.

Even the soot and smoke from thousands detonations from the Atlantic to the Pacific would be far less than the ejecta from Tambora in 1815, that did give 'The Year without a Summer' and that wasn't even a Winter

Radiation will be blown by winds and make its way to wards North America.

This is the real problem. all livestock, all crops are at risk

 

[History Learner]

If USSR is unable to cause serious damage to USA why they would have any better luck with Canada?

The U.S. has three Radar Lines and over 1,000 interceptors to use against Soviet Bombers coming from the Northern over the Arctic into Canada. The problem for the Canadians is, well, this battle would be fought in Canada; it's a lost easier for the RCAF and USAF to destroy a Bear heading for St. Louis then one heading for Winnipeg, given relative distances and the like.

 

[Falk]

The reds had the R-16 intercontinental ballistic missile already operational in 1962. In addition to that the missiles and nukes on Cuba were operational at the time of the crisis. Its plausible that at least two dozen cities in the continental US would get hit.

R-16 (missile) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[History Learner]

The reds had the R-16 intercontinental ballistic missile already operational in 1962. In addition to that the missiles and nukes on Cuba were operational at the time of the crisis. Its plausible that at least two dozen cities in the continental US would get hit.

R-16 (missile) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Soviets only had 20 operational ICBMs with a failure rate of 15-30% and against hundreds of Nuke-tipped NIKE missiles. Definitely single digit city losses at best, and that’s making the assumption they were all geared for Counter-Value instead of Counter Force.

 

[KuboCaskett]

This thread got me thinking about how would military weapons development would go ITTL. With the nuclear weapons being the primary weapons of WWIII, conventional weapons would be secondary, especially when used for overglorified post-nuclear sweep ups; when the fallout mostly goes away, anything can go in weapons development when said conflicts arise from the ashes. For me, I'd expect more usage and development of helicopters along with VTOL aircraft and APCs and IFVs in regards to policing post-nuclear environments.

 

[marathag]

For me, I'd expect more usage and development of helicopters along with VTOL aircraft in regards to policing post-nuclear environments.

Biggest change would be in more interest in Protective gear, super MOPP suits with rebreathers for operations in 'Hot' areas

 

[xsampa]

US is the sole Hyperpower who just finished dispatching most any country that had an overabundance of Red in it, and in 1962, They were still part of SEATO.
I wouldn't push it too far, givein that Nehru was playing a little too much Footsies with the USSR.
Fun Fact: the USSR transferred more Military gear to India, than they did to Mao. India could build the MiG-21 with Moscow's assistance, while Mao got the cold shoulder
Washington noticed that.

I think on November 1,1962, the US would let Nehru know that they were now on double secret probation

Or the US could back pro-American Dravidian rebels. If the Sino-Indian War is averted, the DMK, a regional South Indian party actually could call for secession and there were anti-Hindi riots in the south against the imposition of the largest North Indian language. Maybe the US backs a Dravidian faction if Nehru acts violently against the DMK resulting in the US backing them as long as they are capitalist. Dravidianists tended to be more anti-capitalist than Indian nationalists.

Also, the US needs a) total control of sealanes to prevent future challengers b) places to develop in order to invest $ so South India could be TTL's Japan/South Korea given enough time and investment against the authoritarian, vaguely *leftist North.

 

[KuboCaskett]

Biggest change would be in more interest in Protective gear, super MOPP suits with rebreathers for operations in 'Hot' areas

Don't forget having more vehicles be NBC equipped, though more of the nuclear aspect.

 

[TripleCitizen]

It would be interesting to see the discussions on the World Wars in a world where the Cold War went hot in 1962, considering that every World War would have seemed to have just further cemented the United States as the dominant political, cultural, military and economic powerhouse.

 

[Bernard Woolley]

USSR had enough SS-4 and SS-5 IRBMs that wouldn't be the case, over 600 launch areas in E Europe and the Baltics by 1961

If they are able to fire them. That’s not a given with the poor state of the Soviet command and comms set up.

 

[Rickshaw]

If they are able to fire them. That’s not a given with the poor state of the Soviet command and comms set up.

Which is why they devolved the ability to launch missiles down to the local area commander in most cases.

 

[Geon]

Civil disorder is the most prominent. China collapses back into civil war after the communist regime in Beijing is destroyed by American nuclear weapons. Military warlords fight for control of various nations. Juntas take over many parts of the planet taken up in the war.

Israel is probably destroyed and overrun. Most of the nations in the southern hemisphere remain intact. Civil disorder in the United States is curtailed by harsh military crackdown and martial law. I imagine federal troops having to stop riots, militias, armed gangs, and similar to restore order along main corridors of the nation.

From the aftermath to Amerigo's timeline:

China was never attacked in the CMW scenario. Kennedy revised the SIOP at the last minute because China offered to mediate in the conflict and said it would stay out of the war. China is now a mega-power in its own right having moved into and colonized the eastern part of the former Soviet Union.

As to Israel she forcibly expelled the Palestinians and left them "high and dry" literally on the beaches of Turkey. Israel is now a nuclear power and fully able to handle any and all comers. At the end of the CMW she took a large piece of Syria after Syria tried to invade her.

The nuclear powers in this new world after the CMW are:

1. The United States.
2. The United Kingdom
3. France
4. Israel
5. South Africa
6. India
7. Pakistan
8. Brazil

Brazil also has a growing navy and is now a major world power. Australia, New Zealand, Japan, and the surviving South-eastern Asian nations have banded together in a mutual defense pact similar to NATO and Australia and Japan are now likely working on their own nuclear weapons given the danger they see from the megalith that is China.

 

[Grey Wolf]

I don't understand the blase attitude to the US in this thread. SOVIET BOMBERS are the main threat, they are coming over the Arctic, and they are going to be dropping nukes. In some places Nike Hercules might take them out with their own nuclear burst. But the idea that the USA is fine if it fights a nuclear war in 1963 is very... odd

 

[marathag]

From what I came across, had WWIII started, General Power at SAC probably would have hit China anyway, to make entrance and egress corridors for B-52s visiting the USSR to Clark and Anderson AFB in the Pacific, no matter what JFK wanted.

 

[juanml82]

I don't understand the blase attitude to the US in this thread. SOVIET BOMBERS are the main threat, they are coming over the Arctic, and they are going to be dropping nukes. In some places Nike Hercules might take them out with their own nuclear burst. But the idea that the USA is fine if it fights a nuclear war in 1963 is very... odd

And the exercises the USAF did about intercepting Soviet bombers a few years before 1963 delivered far less than stellar results

 

[juanml82]

USSR had enough SS-4 and SS-5 IRBMs that wouldn't be the case, over 600 launch areas in E Europe and the Baltics by 1961

Yes, and that would leave the Falklands badly isolated. Within 10-15 years, they could easily be integrated in Argentina without a shot being fired. What else are they going to do? They are 1,500 sheep farmers without markets, airports, communications, support, etc.

 

[marathag]

I don't understand the blase attitude to the US in this thread. SOVIET BOMBERS are the main threat, they are coming over the Arctic, and they are going to be dropping nukes. In some places Nike Hercules might take them out with their own nuclear burst. But the idea that the USA is fine if it fights a nuclear war in 1963 is very... odd

They had roughly 250 Bombers available that could drop Bombs over CONUS.
Problem was, the ADC,RCAF, ANG and NAS had over a thousand interceptors, most with atomic AAMs like Genie, and all directed by the most advanced early warning system on the Planet, SAGE.
Odds are not good for them, and that's before they are close to any Metro Area, protected by Nike Hercules and Bomarc.

 

[marathag]

And the exercises the USAF did about intercepting Soviet bombers a few years before 1963 delivered far less than stellar results

Yes, B-52s running flat out at low level could reach the Iowa/Minnesota border.

But Bears had a far different radar return and ECM package than B-52F and G models

 

[Gukpard]

Brazil could try to swallow French Guyana. This was proposed in 61 but rejected. It all depends on how bad France is hit and if Janio Quadros (resigned in 61 otl) is or is not in power.
That being said, Brazil gets wanked at the end of that tl, so regardless of the invasion, we are the future of the west.

 

[juanml82]

They had roughly 250 Bombers available that could drop Bombs over CONUS.
Problem was, the ADC,RCAF, ANG and NAS had over a thousand interceptors, most with atomic AAMs like Genie, and all directed by the most advanced early warning system on the Planet, SAGE.
Odds are not good for them, and that's before they are close to any Metro Area, protected by Nike Hercules and Bomarc.

True, but imagine 10% of those bombers get through