Postwar election results of a victorious German Empire

[NoMommsen]

Prussia's position in the Imperial Federation is unlike that of any other constituent state in other Federations I know.

17 of 58 seats in the Bundesrat, 2/3 of the land area, 3/5 of the population and a constitution that meant the King of Prussia, the Prussian Minister President and various Prussian State Secretaries make up the Imperial Government. Prussia is more uniquely 'national' the way NSW in Australia or New York State and/or California in the USA are not, therefore reform in Prussia has a 'national' impact.

... actually during the war there were only two State Secretaries both being responsible after each other for the Treasury who were for the same time prussian ministers without portfolio:

• Herrman Kühn State Secretary for the Treasury from from March 1912 until Januray 1915
• Siegfried v. Roedern Stare Secretary for the Treasury from May 1916 until November 1918

Karl Helfferich being Stae Secretary for the Trearury from January 1915 until May 1916 (and then State Secrtary for domestic affairs) was never member of the prussian cabinet.

What do you expect ?
That ITTL political conditions all over the realm esp. Prussia become as democratic as under the Weimar constitution (which was and still is the most democratic constitution of modern times at least) over night?


Without a doubt it is to some extent important how things are poing within Prussia. but this - politically - affects the position of the chancellor on the realms only.
And reagarding the Reichsrat ... given its territory (2/3) and population (3/5) it would be entitle to more than just 1/3 of votes in it.

 

[Riain]

... actually during the war there were only two State Secretaries both being responsible after each other for the Treasury who were for the same time prussian ministers without portfolio:

• Herrman Kühn State Secretary for the Treasury from from March 1912 until Januray 1915
• Siegfried v. Roedern Stare Secretary for the Treasury from May 1916 until November 1918

Karl Helfferich being Stae Secretary for the Trearury from January 1915 until May 1916 (and then State Secrtary for domestic affairs) was never member of the prussian cabinet.


What do you expect ?
That ITTL political conditions all over the realm esp. Prussia become as democratic as under the Weimar constitution (which was and still is the most democratic constitution of modern times at least) over night?

I expect constitutional development in peacetime to be a very slow process.

Franchise reform in Prussia postwar will be the only step for many years, maybe even decades. However that step is a significant one, for example it will address the demographic shift from country to cities since 1871.

 

[Nivek]

under the Weimar constitution (which was and still is the

Something that doesn't exist because butterflies

 

[NoMommsen]

Something that doesn't exist because butterflies

Never said it would materialize ITTL. Just used it for us 'hindsighteers' discussing as a template.

 

[NoMommsen]

I expect constitutional development in peacetime to be a very slow process.

Franchise reform in Prussia postwar will be the only step for many years, maybe even decades. However that step is a significant one, for example it will address the demographic shift from country to cities since 1871.

I already explained (see post #19) that it won't take much time due to the to be expected shift of power distribution within the Landtag which would make further 'pressing' on constitutional matters VERY likely in a rather short time (couple to maybe 5 years at last only for them to begin).

 

[Riain]

I already explained (see post #19) that it won't take much time due to the to be expected shift of power distribution within the Landtag which would make further 'pressing' on constitutional matters VERY likely in a rather short time (couple to maybe 5 years at last only for them to begin).

I didn't see the importance of it before, but having Reichstag members be acting State Secretaries is an important step to making such arrangements permanent. Did it require a constitution amendment or change to legislation, or was it just done because it wasn't specifically forbidden and therefore could just keep on going until everyone simply accepted it as fact?

Were 'the necessity of the Reichsrat AND Reichstag approval regarding declaring war and making peace' and 'the responsibility of the Chancellor before the Reichstag' done in practice before October 1918? Were these changes announced publicly at all?

I find this stuff fascinating, it all gets swept up in the chaos of 1918 but in an ATL such details would be extremely important.

 

[NoMommsen]

I didn't see the importance of it before, but having Reichstag members be acting State Secretaries is an important step to making such arrangements permanent. Did it require a constitution amendment or change to legislation, or was it just done because it wasn't specifically forbidden and therefore could just keep on going until everyone simply accepted it as fact?

It was done by 'simple appopintment' but was accepted a necessary a stop gap measure until the necessary legislation could be passed since it then was forbidden for elected members of the Reichstag to take administrative govermental posts.

Were 'the necessity of the Reichsrat AND Reichstag approval regarding declaring war and making peace' and 'the responsibility of the Chancellor before the Reichstag' done in practice before October 1918? Were these changes announced publicly at all?

I have to admitt I don't know about its press coverage and how many people actually read the 'Reichs-Gesetzblatt' but the according two laws were passed by the Reichsrat as well as the Reichtag and publish in it on 28th Oktober 1918.
There were ofc according debates in the Reichstag and the Reichsrat prior to. IOTL at the change from September to oktober things started to be rushed being dilatorily handled before due to Hini/Ludy influence.

 

[Nivek]

I didn't see the importance of it before, but having Reichstag members be acting State Secretaries is an important step to making such arrangements permanent. Did it require a constitution amendment or change to legislation, or was it just done because it wasn't specifically forbidden and therefore could just keep on going until everyone simply accepted it as fact?

I think is another 'if ain't broke, doesn't fix it' remnant of the Bismarckian era. So it would need to codify a new rulesbook for everyone...so asking the kaiser and reichstag for amendments?