Post WW2 with different leaders

How would WW2 end, and how would post WW2 look like without ALL major leaders from ww2? Your challenge is to end WW2 without FDR, Churchill, Stalin, Hitler, Mussolini, De Gaulle, Mao, Tojo, Kai-shek and Tito.

You can remove them however you like. Kill them, coup them, remove them, make them ill...starting in 1939 until the end of war.

Who would be their replacements? Would world today be better or worse place?
 

redeclipse

Banned
WW2 technically did end without FDR and Mussolini. Let's say Hitler gets Valkyrie'd in '44 but the military government finds the allies won't stop fighting them...Hitler's plan to send Otto Skorzeny to take take out FDR, Stalin and Churchill in Operation Longjump at Tehran succeeds...Mao dies during one of Chiang's attempts to off him and then Chiang dies when that warlord kidnaps him...Tojo gets nuked...Tito maybe that other Yugoslav partisan group gets him...probably end up with Henry Wallace as US President being too pro-Soviet, Molotov as Soviet leader...Anthony Eden as British leader...probably some Chinese warlord ends up in charge...
 
WW2 technically did end without FDR and Mussolini. Let's say Hitler gets Valkyrie'd in '44 but the military government finds the allies won't stop fighting them...Hitler's plan to send Otto Skorzeny to take take out FDR, Stalin and Churchill in Operation Longjump at Tehran succeeds...Mao dies during one of Chiang's attempts to off him and then Chiang dies when that warlord kidnaps him...Tojo gets nuked...Tito maybe that other Yugoslav partisan group gets him...probably end up with Henry Wallace as US President being too pro-Soviet, Molotov as Soviet leader...Anthony Eden as British leader...probably some Chinese warlord ends up in charge...

Yeah, I know. FDR died when WW2 in Europe was pretty much over.
Let's say that Mussolini is killed when Italy surrenders. No Italian Social republic.
Hitler get killed in August 1944., after succesful Longjump.
Tojo is killed by nuke, or in some inner Japanese conflict.
Tito is killed on Sutjeska or Drvar. I see massive changes in Yugoslavia.
I'm not expert on Chinese history, but i think that China would be separated in multiple countries?
 
Kai-shek...

ITYM "Chiang"; in Chinese discourse, family name comes first. Or your list should be "Frankiin, Winston, Joseph, Adolph, Benito, Hideki, Tse-Tung, Charles, and Josip.

Also, Mao was not a national leader at the end of the war.

Any of these men could have been killed or died during the war.
  • Roosevelt died just after V-E Day; he could have died sooner.
  • Churchill could have been killed flying back to Britain in January 1942; his plane went off course and almost passed over Brest.
  • Hitler narrowly escaped assassination several times.
  • Mussolini was in fact overthrown in 1943, and might have been killed in the SS rescue operation. (Or the fleeing Italian government might have taken him along to Allied-occupied southern Italy.)
  • Tojo was sacked in July 1944 OTL.
  • Tito could have been killed in any of several German anti-Partisan operations.
  • De Gaulle could have been killed by a V-2.
Stalin and Chiang are much trickier.
 
Would Yugoslavia remain royalist if Tito was killed off or would the Soviets simply install another communist?

Personally, I think partisans would divide among national lines. Unified pre-war monarchy is hard to achive, even in alt history. Too many people despised king, and monarchy itself.

ITYM "Chiang"; in Chinese discourse, family name comes first. Or your list should be "Frankiin, Winston, Joseph, Adolph, Benito, Hideki, Tse-Tung, Charles, and Josip.

Also, Mao was not a national leader at the end of the war.

Any of these men could have been killed or died during the war.
  • Roosevelt died just after V-E Day; he could have died sooner.
  • Churchill could have been killed flying back to Britain in January 1942; his plane went off course and almost passed over Brest.
  • Hitler narrowly escaped assassination several times.
  • Mussolini was in fact overthrown in 1943, and might have been killed in the SS rescue operation. (Or the fleeing Italian government might have taken him along to Allied-occupied southern Italy.)
  • Tojo was sacked in July 1944 OTL.
  • Tito could have been killed in any of several German anti-Partisan operations.
  • De Gaulle could have been killed by a V-2.
Stalin and Chiang are much trickier.

I didn't know that. Thanks.
Stalin - he suffered 2 heart attacks if I'm not mistaken. Or he dies in Moscow when Germans took the city.
Chiang - maybe dies in some Japanese raid or something?

Longjump and Valkyre would change post war situation dramaticly.

Without conclusions from Tehran, a lot of things are changing. Until then only unconditional surrender was agreed.
Stalin's death would lead to short-term chaos in the Soviet Union. Molotov would probably be prime minister in the end, but I'm not sure that the Soviets would eventually have a unique idea what to do after war. Eden would inherit Churchill, but it would be a big question if he did some things like him. For example, Churchill supported the communists in Yugoslavia and established relations with Tito.

De Gaulle's death would seriously endanger French efforts in the war. France after the war wouldn't be treated as an equal member of the Allies. There is no permanent seat in the UN Security Council for her.

Tojo - If it disappeared before December 7th, maybe, I say maybe, there wouldn't be a Japanese war with America.

FDR - Wallace would replace him, which would mean that there would be even greater concessions to the Soviets.

Hitler - If he dies in Valkyrie, Germany may be able to negotiate a conditional surrender.

Mussolini - there are no Italian social republics and Italy is a homogenous society after the war with the weaker communists. Probably remains a monarchy.

Tito - there is no second Yugoslavia. Simply.

Mao and Chiang - do we have today united mainland China?
 
Stalin - he suffered 2 heart attacks if I'm not mistaken. Or he dies in Moscow when Germans took the city.
Germans capturing Moscow is a much bigger change, not what the OP asked about

Chiang - maybe dies in some Japanese raid or something?
Possible - a "golden bomb" on Chungking, though I don't think the Japanese raided Chungking to any effect after 1942.

Longjump and Valkyre would change post war situation dramaticly.

Without conclusions from Tehran, a lot of things are changing. Until then only unconditional surrender was agreed.

Stalin's death would lead to short-term chaos in the Soviet Union.

I doubt that. There was no one outside the inner circle who would assert power, and the inner circle (the Politburo) would work out a succession quickly. It might only be an interim succession, but there would be no disorder. Unless Beria tried to seize complete power and the rest of the Politburo launched a counter-coup.

Eden would inherit Churchill, but it would be a big question if he did some things like him.
Bear in mind that an election was due, that OTL that election preceded V-J Day, and the Conservatives were routed even with Churchill leading.

[/QUOTE]De Gaulle's death would seriously endanger French efforts in the war.[/QUOTE]I doubt that. Free France was more than his personal enterprise.

Tojo - If it...
ITYM "he"...
disappeared before December 7th, maybe, I say maybe, there wouldn't be a Japanese war with America.
Tojo was only first among equals, not Maximum Leader. Japan's policy would be unchanged except in minor details. He didn't become PM till October 1941, by which time Japan was committed to war.

FDR - Wallace would replace him...
Only until 20 Jan 1945. The Yalta Conference started 4 February. (WI Truman at Yalta?) And if FDR dies after election day Wallace is only a lame-duck President.

Hitler - If he dies in Valkyrie, Germany may be able to negotiate a conditional surrender.
Not unless the post-Nazi regime leaders are really really clever and far more realistic than the OTL Schwarz Kapelle leaders. US and British leaders all believed that Hitler was merely the current incarnation of Germany's incorrigible aggressive militarism (embodied in the Army General Staff and the arms magnates) and that VALKYRIE was rats trying to salvage their sinking ship. Stalin was even more determined to crush Germany.

Tito - there is no second Yugoslavia. Simply.
So without Tito, Croatia remains independent? I don't think so.

Mao and Chiang - do we have today united mainland China?
Most likely - a partition of the mainland would be militarily unstable.
 
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