Post WW1 German Empire. Monarchy never abolished

[Iron_Lord]

Could A strong King during Post War Germany have stemmed the rise of the Nazi Party? The German people in times of hardship looked to a radical leader, Could the Crown Prince of Germany Provide it? Plus, Would we just see another WW2, considering monarchs in Europe don't exactly have a reputation of keeping there treaty?

Wilhelm, German Crown Prince​

POD: Wilhelm II, German Emperor abdicates as per OTL, but Wihelm, Crown Prince takes charge. The 'Weimar Republic' Is instead a Constitutional Monarchy with a Mixed Member Proportional. (think New Zealand)

 

[Femto]

If Hitler still gets power in Germany he would've been overthrown by an army coup by risking starting a war Germany can't win, the generals would be bolder if the monarchy still existed.

 

[Jaenera Targaryen]

It would butterfly the Nazis, but not necessarily German expansion and rearmament. That said, Germany might be right-wing, but it won't be as hellishly evil as the Nazis turned it into. Their territorial ambitions would be less, for one thing. They'd still probably remilitarize the Rhineland, but the Anschluss is unlikely due to the Hohenzollerns' concerns about more Catholics in Germany. If anything, they'd probably sign off on Austria being in Italy's sphere of interest to pry Italy from the Entente, and for goodwill in the future.

Sudetenland...they might go for it, but they might also go for a middle path, with the Sudetenland just getting autonomy in exchange for trade concessions for Czechoslovakia from Germany. Again, the goal would be to pry Czechoslovakia from the Entente (or France in particular) and aligning it with Germany.

The only territorial goals I can't see a continuing Kaiserreich would compromise on would be in the east: Posen, Upper Silesia, West Prussia, and Memel. They'd also probably try to contain the USSR with an alliance of Central and East European states (Czechoslovakia and Romania are critical for this), but they almost certainly wouldn't invade the USSR.

 

[Scerus]

I think it would complicate Nazi control. Prince Wilhelm of Prussia (Wilhelm Friedrich Franz Joseph Christian Olaf; 4 July 1906 – 26 May 1940) was the eldest child of Crown Prince Wilhelm of Germany and Duchess Cecilie of Mecklenburg-Schwerin. At his birth, he was second in line to the German throne and was expected to succeed to the throne after the deaths of his grandfather and father, both of whom, however, outlived him.

In May 1940, Wilhelm took part in the invasion of France. He was wounded during the fighting in Valenciennes and died in a field hospital in Nivelles on 26 May 1940. His funeral service was held at the Church of Peace, and he was buried in the Hohenzollern family mausoleum in the Antique Temple in Sanssouci Park. The service drew over 50,000 mourners, by far the largest unofficial public turnout during Nazi rule in Germany.

His death and the ensuing sympathy of the German public revealed that despite years of Nazi ideologic indoctrination large parts of the German society still were affectionately bound to the former German royal houses. Shortly after Wilhelm's death, a decree known as the Prinzenerlaß, or Prince's Decree, was issued, barring all members of the former German royal houses from service in the Wehrmacht.

You could at least provide the link to wikipedia instead of copying it, almost word for word.

 

[Iron_Lord]

It would butterfly the Nazis, but not necessarily German expansion and rearmament. That said, Germany might be right-wing, but it won't be as hellishly evil as the Nazis turned it into. Their territorial ambitions would be less, for one thing. They'd still probably remilitarize the Rhineland, but the Anschluss is unlikely due to the Hohenzollerns' concerns about more Catholics in Germany. If anything, they'd probably sign off on Austria being in Italy's sphere of interest to pry Italy from the Entente, and for goodwill in the future.

Sudetenland...they might go for it, but they might also go for a middle path, with the Sudetenland just getting autonomy in exchange for trade concessions for Czechoslovakia from Germany. Again, the goal would be to pry Czechoslovakia from the Entente (or France in particular) and aligning it with Germany.

The only territorial goals I can't see a continuing Kaiserreich would compromise on would be in the east: Posen, Upper Silesia, West Prussia, and Memel. They'd also probably try to contain the USSR with an alliance of Central and East European states (Czechoslovakia and Romania are critical for this), but they almost certainly wouldn't invade the USSR.

Under the Presumption that the Germans (with strong monarch) will break the Treaty, or at least pay it off and expand regardless, How do you think if would affect the British and French empires? I don't exactly see them collapsing around there ears. Also, do you think that they would get colonial empire back to some sense of existance?

 

[Dorknought]

You could at least provide the link to wikipedia instead of copying it, almost word for word.

Since the interface update a month or so I’ve had trouble adding links on the phone. If you think the information is plagiarism and not relevant then I’ll happily remove it and not participate further.

 

[Femto]

, but the Anschluss is unlikely due to the Hohenzollerns' concerns about more Catholics in Germany. If anything, they'd probably sign off on Austria being in Italy's sphere of interest to pry Italy from the Entente, and for goodwill in the future.

They would still annex Austria, it was the rational thing to do, the only legitimate and pacific expansion. The Hohenzollerns wouldn't have a say in this regard, and probably would be happy even considering the catholic issue(a Zentrum politician could be the prime-minister who works for the annexation). Italy be damned.

No Nazis means Germany possibly has an easier time trying to do the Anschluss as the West would be more inclined to do even more appeasement towards Germany, seeing her has a more stable bulwark against communism. Mussolini can't stop the annexation, he is too weak.

 

[Jaenera Targaryen]

Under the Presumption that the Germans (with strong monarch) will break the Treaty, or at least pay it off and expand regardless, How do you think if would affect the British and French empires? I don't exactly see them collapsing around there ears. Also, do you think that they would get colonial empire back to some sense of existance?

Britain's enmity to Germany was based on their competition on the colonial stage, and the threatening size of the German Navy. A revived German colonial empire would be a non-starter...though I don't think the Germans would even try. WWI showed them that they couldn't defend their colonies, and even before that they were a money sink. That removes one source of friction between them. The other is more manageable, as while Britain would not want Germany to threaten their dominance of the seas, a relatively-strong German Navy would be desirable to keep the Soviets from dominating the Baltic, much less break out into the North Sea and Atlantic. Either the OTL Anglo-German Agreement, or Germany signing the London Naval Treaty, would be enough for Britain.

France is trickier. It's unlikely large-scale rearmament would be possible until the mid to late 30s, assuming the Great Depression still breaks out. With France too busy with economic difficulties to go on military adventures to keep Germany down, that would be the prime opportunity to rebuild the Heer and establish a Luftwaffe. And to remilitarize the Rhineland, of course.

 

[Iron_Lord]

Britain's enmity to Germany was based on their competition on the colonial stage, and the threatening size of the German Navy. A revived German colonial empire would be a non-starter...though I don't think the Germans would even try. WWI showed them that they couldn't defend their colonies, and even before that they were a money sink. That removes one source of friction between them. The other is more manageable, as while Britain would not want Germany to threaten their dominance of the seas, a relatively-strong German Navy would be desirable to keep the Soviets from dominating the Baltic, much less break out into the North Sea and Atlantic. Either the OTL Anglo-German Agreement, or Germany signing the London Naval Treaty, would be enough for Britain.

France is trickier. It's unlikely large-scale rearmament would be possible until the mid to late 30s, assuming the Great Depression still breaks out. With France too busy with economic difficulties to go on military adventures to keep Germany down, that would be the prime opportunity to rebuild the Heer and establish a Luftwaffe. And to remilitarize the Rhineland, of course.

Hey... Now that the emperor is still in power, we might be able to avoid the whole Ruhr Valley incident (a key moment in German hyperinflation). I could totally see a completely different economic Great Depression Germany.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_the_Ruhr

 

[David T]

An old joke of mine: It's a good thing Italy and Japan kept their monarchies. Otherwise, they might have gone Fascist!

 

[Femto]

An old joke of mine: It's a good thing Italy and Japan kept their monarchies. Otherwise, they might have gone Fascist!

Japan wasn't fascist and Italy was different. Mussolini was a latecomer who joined the war as a supporting, any German attempt to join the war would inevitable be much more serious cuz Germany would always support the bulk of the conflict in any side they fought in WW2, that's one of the reasons for why the Germans generals plotted to kill Hitler to prevent him from angering the Allies. If Mussolini tried to go to war against France and Britain alone you could be sure the Army and the King would hang Mussolini in a tree before the thing even started.

 

[Jaenera Targaryen]

Speaking of Italy, there's one avenue the Germans might try to play the colonial game again, by funding oil exploration and development in Libya.

 

[Whiteshore]

Japan wasn't fascist and Italy was different. Mussolini was a latecomer who joined the war as a supporting, any German attempt to join the war would inevitable be much more serious cuz Germany would always support the bulk of the conflict in any side they fought in WW2, that's one of the reasons for why the Germans generals plotted to kill Hitler to prevent him from angering the Allies. If Mussolini tried to go to war against France and Britain alone you could be sure the Army and the King would hang Mussolini in a tree before the thing even started.

Besides, Mussolini and his fascists were reluctant partners with the monarchy as Mussolini's fascist movement initially had a republican lean.

 

[Karelian]

Crown Prince Willy was arch-conservative authoritarian anti-Semite who had no qualms about associating himself with the Nazis in OTL:

 

[Emperor Norton I]

Crown Prince Willy was arch-conservative authoritarian anti-Semite who had no qualms about associating himself with the Nazis in OTL:

Why does Hitler look like a 15 year old girl meeting One Direction?

 

[Veiovis]

Japan wasn't fascist

...ultra nationalism,racial supremacism,ultra militarism, expansionist imperialism,very authorian,mass national movements dedicated to the state, a clear personal cult,strong anti-communism,geopolitcally alligned against democracies and communist regimes and alligned with fascist and national socialist states....in which universe is that not fascist?

 

[Femto]

...ultra nationalism,racial supremacism,ultra militarism, expansionist imperialism,very authorian,mass national movements dedicated to the state, a clear personal cult,strong anti-communism,geopolitcally alligned against democracies and communist regimes and alligned with fascist and national socialist states....in which universe is that not fascist?

By being not-fascist.

 

[Veiovis]

By being not-fascist.

thanks for your extensive justification of your claim.

 

[Roches]

How do they end up with a mixed-member proportional system? Pre-1918 Prussia, though not the Reichstag, had what’s got to be one of the least democratic electoral systems ever — it was probably worse than pre-Civil War US elections. There were three classes, based on the amount of taxes each person paid, and voting was done orally, in public. (There was a kind of Electoral College for each seat, too.) The Reichstag was your typical first-past-the-post one-vote-per-[21+ male] person, IIRC. I don’t think there’d be a three-class system for the Reichstag, but I don’t see a monarchist post-war Germany adopting a more democratic voting system than the OTL Weimar Republic.

 

[riggerrob]

What lands did the Hohenzollern family still own? ... outside of their political allegianc s?