Post-Michael Germany

[maverick]

Its 1918 and the Germans have won the war...let's say that either the USA did not enter into the fray and Michael was more successful in 1918...or that Italy collapses in 1917 and so does the Western Front in 1918...anyhow...

The point for this is to see what Germany looks like politically after a victory in 1918 at the Great war...

As we know, from 1917 onwards Germany was dominated by the fanatically nationalistic Military-Industrial complex of Marshal von Hindenburg, Chief of the General Staff, and his Quartermaster General, Eric von Luddendorff, the man pulling the actual strings and running the dictatorship...

Max of Baden is chancellor, socialism is on the rise, the country about to collapse, but it doesn't, the workers are pissed and the Social Democrats kinda control the Reichstag...

And now, sometime in the summer of 1918, the allies have surrendered, and thus the joy of victory kinda for a few weeks overpowers the tired and rebellious masses...

What happens next in Germany? politically and socially?

 

[simonbp]

What happens next in Germany? politically and socially?

I don't know; Germany's just not the same after Schumacher retired...

Simon

 

[Tom_B]

Its 1918 and the Germans have won the war...let's say that either the USA did not enter into the fray and Michael was more successful in 1918...or that Italy collapses in 1917 and so does the Western Front in 1918...anyhow...

The point for this is to see what Germany looks like politically after a victory in 1918 at the Great war...

As we know, from 1917 onwards Germany was dominated by the fanatically nationalistic Military-Industrial complex of Marshal von Hindenburg, Chief of the General Staff, and his Quartermaster General, Eric von Luddendorff, the man pulling the actual strings and running the dictatorship...

Max of Baden is chancellor, socialism is on the rise, the country about to collapse, but it doesn't, the workers are pissed and the Social Democrats kinda control the Reichstag...

And now, sometime in the summer of 1918, the allies have surrendered, and thus the joy of victory kinda for a few weeks overpowers the tired and rebellious masses...

What happens next in Germany? politically and socially?

Grey Wolf had a 1918 CP victory TL that might provide you with a few ideas.
https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=88209

 

[chris N]

My guess is that the first thing that would be needed was to make sure that the german people were fed. The question would then be as to what would germany be willing to accept for peace that would not result in another war 20 years latter.
A victory by Germany would mean that the Kaiser was still in power and the morale of the army would be much higher than in OTL.

 

[Grey Wolf]

Why is Prince Max chancellor if the Germans have won the war with Michael ?

My guess is that the Third Supreme Command would remain in control of certain powerful aspects of policy in the East into the early 1920s, but with control gradually shifted to civilian organisations

There would be a need for a period of calm demobilisation and normalisation, so I don't think elections are immediate, but by mid 1919 there would need to be national elections to the Reichstag. It is pretty much inevitable that the SPD will win, and it may well be that its a good idea to give them a taste of power at this moment when the Third Supreme Command continues to control other things - i.e. the SPD cannot undo foreign policy and military successes, but can have a go at social policy etc

Best Regards
Grey Wolf

 

[Admiral Canaris]

What's the situation in Russia? Are there Bolsheviks in power, funding extreme Marxist groups in Germany and agitating among the workers?

 

[Grey Wolf]

What's the situation in Russia? Are there Bolsheviks in power, funding extreme Marxist groups in Germany and agitating among the workers?

Unlikely, since Ludendorff etc were supporting Yudenich and Mannerheim in late 1918 in OTL, and I don't see why they would stop now ? The Bolsheviks threaten all of the Reich's new client states, especially Ukraine, so aiding the Whites into Russia itself (ie making it clear they wont get the old empire that they lost at Brest-Litovsk back) and putting someone friendly into Moscow would make sense.

Best Regards
Grey Wolf

 

[Admiral Canaris]

Unlikely, since Ludendorff etc were supporting Yudenich and Mannerheim in late 1918 in OTL, and I don't see why they would stop now ? The Bolsheviks threaten all of the Reich's new client states, especially Ukraine, so aiding the Whites into Russia itself (ie making it clear they wont get the old empire that they lost at Brest-Litovsk back) and putting someone friendly into Moscow would make sense.

Best Regards
Grey Wolf

Right. My question was more along the lines, do they get into power in the first place (not a given with an Italian surrender in '17 and its various butterflies)? If so, how long do they manage to stay in power, and how much trouble do they cause in Germany and other areas before Ludendorff and whatever flunkies he uses depose them? If there are outright acts of violence, it might lessen sympathies for the Socialist cause, as might the true nature of the Bolshevik regime once the German propaganda realises it.