Post-independence Mexico = the former Viceroyalty of New Spain

Thande

Donor
I have no idea how this could happen, and it's probably a wank.

I suppose it might be a case of direct British support for Mexico in their war of independence - perhaps if Ferdinand tried to neutralise Spain after the French had been ejected in 1813, which I have read but I'm not sure how accurate it is, and Britain turned avowedly against Spain in the New World rather than trying to balance interests.

America, I don't think, wouldn't see its interests served in assisting the independence of such a powerful Mexico, even at this early stage.

But anyway. Never mind how. What if Mexico becomes independent holding all the territory of the former Viceroyalty of New Spain (see map below, all areas marked in red) and holds on to all of it for at least the next 50 years (i.e. to about 1860/70) ?

Ubermexico.png
 
Except for Vancouver, Florida, and the Carribean islands, that is pretty much how much territory Mexico had when it became independent. It later lost CA and North American territory in OTL. So this is more of a matter of sticking together than starting out larger.
 
And the Philippines...

Oops, missed that. Unless Mexico has a fairly big fleet, it's going to lose the Philippines to some European power in a short amont of time. That's fairly true for Puerto Rico and Vancouver, too.
 
Well, there's always the potential that American emigrants chose to defend their new country rather than filibuster parts of it away. Likely there's need to be some kind of great political stir in the USA for this to happen: perhaps a greater controversy between Federalist/Democratic Republicans under Adams, leading to an outright civil war of some sort.

Perhaps the Bourbon kings of Spain do what the Portuguese did in Brazil, flee to their New World colonies from Napoleon's onslaught and rule them directly. In New Spain, they might stay when they realize the potential power of their new realm. This effectively the emergent independence groups by granting New Spain independence of its own monarchy. There are still major issues, such as poverty, slavery, and the church. And of course, the former Spanish royals still cannot contest Bolivar and San Martin in South America.

I guess it depends on how Mexico/New Spain manages to hold together? By crushing all break away groups? By actually giving birth to a Pan American Hispanic nationalistic sentiment? In the former case the US in 1870 or so could still mount a war and bite off large chunks of these gains. If slavery had been resolved and it's just an issue of Manifest Destiny, then who knows how big that bite might be. Only in the former case, however, in which case I'm guessing Mexico is still hard pressed economically and thus unable to resist the technology and manpower of the USA.
 
How the heck is Mexico going to get/keep Vancouver Island?!

Yes, they claimed it. But so did the Brits (who actually had boots (well maybe mocassins) on the ground there). Moreover, the British pink should extend all the way to the coast at least at least in the Vancouver area, as the HBC had trading posts there. Actually, pink down to the Columbia river would make sense (e.g. Ft.Vancouver was founded across the river from OTL Portland in 1825).
 
In 1820 Irutribe a Spainish General, was on the point of crushing the last holdout of the Rebels. when He recieved word of King Ferninad accepting the Liberal Consitution.
He switched sides, and within a year crushed the Spainish Loyalists.

However in 1819, before this, Spain had sold all of Florida, and all land north of the arkasaw river west to the Divide, and from the divide to the South seas at the 45o.

Therefore you need a POD long before 1819, as the Loyalist Generals like Santa Ana, and Irutribe, were just to good for the rebels to handle.

this POD would have to explain why Spain was willing to give up the still loyal Islands in the Carribbean.
 
Charles IV escapes to Mexico before Napoleon can kidnap him. Ironically, the butterflies result in a Napoleonic victory in Spain: The king has not been kidnaped... he had abandoned his subdits in Spain voluntarily! All hail José I el Liberal!

So Napoleon wins in Iberia. ASBs make Portugal to agree to Napoleon's conditions and the country is spared from occupation. Yet Russia still refuses to sign the Continental Blockade, and the Napoleonic invasion of Russia ends in the same disaster as OTL, leading to Napoleon's downfall.

When news that Europe and Spain has been freed of Napoleon's rule reach Mexico, neither Charles nor Ferdinand want to abandone their new court. Charles dies in 1819 and divides the empire between his three sons: Ferdinand gets New Spain, Charles South America, and poor young Francis is left with the old motherland.
 
ASBs make Portugal to agree to Napoleon's conditions and the country is spared from occupation

And so Brazil doesn't become an Empire, but would end as several fragmented republics, surrounded by a strong Spanish-American kingdom...
 
Well, if you butterfly away the Adams-Onís Treaty, which settled the borders between "New Spain" and the US, then it could be possible to get those borders.
 
Charles IV escapes to Mexico before Napoleon can kidnap him. Ironically, the butterflies result in a Napoleonic victory in Spain: The king has not been kidnaped... he had abandoned his subdits in Spain voluntarily! All hail José I el Liberal!

So Napoleon wins in Iberia. ASBs make Portugal to agree to Napoleon's conditions and the country is spared from occupation. Yet Russia still refuses to sign the Continental Blockade, and the Napoleonic invasion of Russia ends in the same disaster as OTL, leading to Napoleon's downfall.

When news that Europe and Spain has been freed of Napoleon's rule reach Mexico, neither Charles nor Ferdinand want to abandone their new court. Charles dies in 1819 and divides the empire between his three sons: Ferdinand gets New Spain, Charles South America, and poor young Francis is left with the old motherland.

This is probably the best way to achieve this. It might still loose some territory, but, with and uncontested strong government, chances of modernising to be able to face the US by 1860 are much higher. (A secondary Pod that keeps the US in trouble till 1860 might also help)
 
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