Post-1900 Alternate History Tropes/Cliches:

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: After 1900' started by raharris1973, Jul 10, 2019.

  1. raharris1973 Gone Fishin'

    Jan 28, 2004
    My nominees for top post-1900 Alternate History Tropes/Cliches, are:

    1. Scaled up German training, advising and equipping of Nationalist China is a magic ingredient, enough to make the latter a formidable fighting force.

    2. Fascist Italian or Imperial Japanese cooperation with the USSR is even more unlikely to ever happen than Nazi German cooperation with the USSR

    3. TR can become President in 1912, and he would succeed in getting USA into WWI

    4. The German military high command could smoothly coup Hitler if he faces any setbacks earlier than OTL

    5. Without Woodrow Wilson’s 14 Points & Self-Determination rhetoric, there would be no fracturing of Austria-Hungary and ethnic Slavic successor states post-WWI

    6. Stalin likes committing wars of aggression sooner or later

    7. Stalin’s collaboration with Chiang Kai-shek indicates a definite preference for KMT over CCP in China. Stalin’s relationship with both can only be zero-sum

    8. Germany can only win the campaign of 1940 via the Ardennes and in a six-week campaign, otherwise it starts losing quickly.

    9. Kaiser Wilhelm was the cause of Imperial Germany’s woes rather than the scapegoat for them.

    10.Even if Britain made a separate peace with Germany in WWII, it would likely restart a war with Germany when opportune

    11. Germany cannot be broken up after WWI

    12.From March 1917 on, a Tsarist or at least reactionary White Russia is the most plausible alternative to the Bolesheviks non-Boleshevik Democratic Socialist Parties which had much more electoral support

    13.Every world with a non Saudi Arabia has less Islamic extremism and less terrorism

    Last edited: Jul 16, 2019
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  2. SlideAway Well-Known Member

    Dec 5, 2009
    Central Powers win = stable Pax Germanica.

    Non-Nazi, post-Weimar expansionist German state = stable Pax Germanica.

    Austria-Hungary collapses even after a Central Powers win.

    Reagan always becomes president.
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2019
  3. Coiler Well-Known Member

    Jan 10, 2009
    Bad presidents aren't just bad presidents, they're puppy-kicking monsters.
    Kaze, SavoyTruffle, spkaca and 19 others like this.
  4. cmakk1012 Well-Known Member

    Apr 30, 2012
    If politics go even slightly worse in America, the continued/restarted use of nukes by America is inevitable. Usually in Vietnam...
  5. rick007 Well-Known Member

    Dec 11, 2006
    A Kennedy will always be president and they will always be assassinated or resign in disgrace or both.
  6. Amadeus Well-Known Member

    Mar 19, 2017
    Even Stephen King is guilty of this: (11/22/63)
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  7. Soup Well-Known Member

    Apr 1, 2011
    Bohemian Flats
    No matter what happens in both world and internal politics, the USSR will collapse (especially in the 90s)
  8. BeyondTheBorg Active Member

    Aug 30, 2016
    1. Dirigibles gain wider usage/stick around past the early era of flight, even as there's nothing they can do that their heavier-than-air counterparts can't do better.
    2. Nazi Germany wins the war with Me262s, the Maus Tank, V2 Rockets, Nukes and other Wunderwaffe.
    3. The USSR and Nazi Non-Aggression Pact holds, despite the two states seeing each other as ideological opposites and existential threats.
    4. America saves the day in WW1/WW2
    5. (In Confederate Victory TLs) WW1-style Trench Warfare in North America
    6. Trotsky leads the USSR to achieve true communism, and the USSR's OTL failures were all Stalin's fault
  9. Lalli Well-Known Member

    Feb 28, 2010
    - Central Powers Victory means Pax Germanica and no ever questionise German supremacy.
    - No world wars mean surviving colonialism.
    - If Entente wins WW1 before 1917, Russian Empire will survive until present day.
    - If Stalin is not Lenin's successor, it is always Trotsky.
    - If Germany wins in Stalingrad they automaitcally wins WW2.
    - If Patton survives some years after WW2 him becomes president of United States.
    - By 1960 at least one of WW2 general has acted as POTUS.
    - After WW2 there is always president named Kennedy.
  10. Calcaterra Stuff About Politics (& Sports) Donor

    Dec 26, 2017
    No, You
    - When you start with a post-1980 POD, Barack Obama will always end up as a great politician
    - Bill Clinton is either a philandering politician or a jazz musician, he cannot do anything else
    - Donald Rumsfeld will always become a dictator
    - John Wayne is a soldier or an anti-communist politician
    - If the Tsar lives, the Russian Empire will either flourish or he will end up dying anyway in a later communist revolution
    - The crash will always be in 1929, it cannot be any sooner or later, no matter what
  11. Sam R. Well-Known Member

    May 11, 2011
    Leninist organisations are rational actors. Corporations are rational actors. States are rational actors. Economic decisions operate on rational profit maximisation without causing a revolution.

    Value did not reproduce in an expanded form in Soviet style economies. Value was not the central economic relationship in soviet style societies. Firms lack internal agents.
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  12. CommanderVonBruning In command of the torpedo gunboat 'Blitz'

    Aug 26, 2017
    United Kingdom of GB and NI
    1. Churchill as PM outside WW2 is always infamously terrible and probably a Liberal
    2. Attlee was either too left wing or not left wing enough
    3. A world war is pretty much a given in the 1930s-40s
    4. Britain is a l w a y s in decline, no matter what
    5. Imperial Germany was either great and way better than the evil Entente, or evil and way worse than the benevolent Entente.
    spkaca and Time Enough like this.
  13. HeX Self-Proclaimed Disney Expert

    Sep 21, 2018
    Disneyland, U.S.A.
    1. The Great Depression always happens, always during the 1930s, and always begins on October 29, 1929
    2. WWI can only start because someone shoots Franz Ferdinand
    3. Winston Churchill is always in charge during WWII
    4. Imperialism always comes to an end even if the World Wars are completely different or don't happen at all
    5. Global wars come in pairs, or even trios, but never fly solo
    6. Mussolini always leaves behind socialism for fascism
    7. Hitler is either a genocidal world-conquering maniac, or a student in art school (even though he sucked at art and never had a chance of getting into that school)
  14. Stenz Don't judge the past by the standards of today... Monthly Donor

    May 18, 2016
    Leafy Southern Blighty
    A surviving Wilhelmine Empire always becomes Nazis with better moustaches.
  15. King Jasper Well-Known Member

    Dec 27, 2018
    >Death dates of politicians and other world figures never change in a different TL
    >Soviet union has three modes after Lenin's death: Stalinist, Trotskyist, or a troika of obscure 1920s Russian communists.
    >No world wars/no WW2 either means quick decolonization, like OTL, or decolonization literally never.
    >Politicians who were important OTL are always important in another TL, obscure politicians never rise to the top.
    >American city planning in regards to suburbs and highways is always the same.
    >Decades always have the same general trends: 50s are socially conservative, 60s counterculture, 80s mass privatization, ect.
    Time Enough and LuckyLuciano like this.
  16. Karelian Well-Known Member

    Sep 8, 2011
    Warfare always evolves with the same steps and timetable as OTL.
  17. Tamara Well-Known Member

    Mar 23, 2019
    Something important always happens in Germany.
  18. HeX Self-Proclaimed Disney Expert

    Sep 21, 2018
    Disneyland, U.S.A.
    To be fair, Germany is a very big place with a lot of people, occupies the center of Europe, shares large borders a lot of major OTL foes, and has been a fixture of European society since the Fall of the Roman Empire. I'd be a bit more annoyed if something didn't happen in Germany.
  19. Lalli Well-Known Member

    Feb 28, 2010
    Germany is too big and important country to be ignored at least if you want say something about Europe. Very well you can too say that in USA, Russia, France or China happens always something important.
  20. NHBL Long Time Member, CMII

    Jan 1, 2004
    I was going through this list--and all of these are things that have a good chance in changing in the timeline I;m working on, The Masquerade.

    Another one: Unless the timeline is specifically space-focused, space travel will usually stay close to OTL