Possible pseudo-scientific ideas of "English Nazism"?

By "English Nazism" I mean a group that's based on roughly the same stupid ideas of National Socialism - racial superiority, militarism, "English Christianity" shorn of its Jewish roots (but without embracing 'Celtic Christianity'), anti-Marxism, totalitarianism, etc. We'll call it Anglosophy. What kind of crazy-ass notions might this group hold about English history, religion, etc.? Things on par with Himmler-style mystical lunacy.

(Full disclosure, I'm trolling for ideas for article and book titles to stock the Anglosophy library in a short story set in Victorian London. Creators of cool ideas will of course be given due credit in the story when I put it up on Amazon.)
 
Why embrace any sort of Christianity at all? The German Nazis didn't. I'd guess that they'd glorify the Anglo-Saxons and other Germanic peoples as superior rulers over the "weak, barbaric" Celtic peoples. Irish, Scottish, Welsh, and Manx might take the place of Poles and other Slavs in this world. The French, too, might be seen as an inferior Celtic-derived people (that thing about French textbooks and "our ancestors, the Gauls") and their influences on English language and culture might be rejected. The English dominance over many areas of France during the Hundred Years War might be looked upon as a golden age for England and give English Nazis a sense of entitlement to France as the rightful domain of the UK...
 
An interesting idea: make them to claim the Anglo-Saxon ancestry lands in Germany and the Low Countries. It would be interesting for sure :D
 
Perhaps they would believe that England was ruled by barbarians (the Celts and the Saxons) and "wretched foreigners" (the Romans) until the Normans conquered England and "civilized it." Due to this France would be rightfully under English rule. The Welsh and Scots would be similar to the Poles or Czechs; some of them being able to be "Anglicized" and some having to be sterilized or otherwise forcefully rendered extinct. I imagine that they would want to reconquer Ireland and that the Irish Catholics would be like the Jews. They might still have a idea that is analogous to Lebensraum but with colonies such as India and Africa being forcefully Anglicized with the natives enslaved and forced to live on reservations.
 

Pangur

Donor
Perhaps they would believe that England was ruled by barbarians (the Celts and the Saxons) and "wretched foreigners" (the Romans) until the Normans conquered England and "civilized it." Due to this France would be rightfully under English rule. The Welsh and Scots would be similar to the Poles or Czechs; some of them being able to be "Anglicized" and some having to be sterilized or otherwise forcefully rendered extinct. I imagine that they would want to reconquer Ireland and that the Irish Catholics would be like the Jews. They might still have a idea that is analogous to Lebensraum but with colonies such as India and Africa being forcefully Anglicized with the natives enslaved and forced to live on reservations.

Lebensraum directed towards India and Africa? the former perhaps not the latter yes Equally they may see the US in that light
 
How would this Nazi UK view the Empire? What if nations, still clinging to democracy would try to distance itself from the Nazis? Would they look for a reconquest of Canada? Or later America?

As for sudo-sciences. I would think most of it would be very similar to what the Germans did. But a different almost of a pure idea of race. I mean, the Nazis thought of East Indians, Native Americans and Tibetans as Arians. I see the English taking a far more "only white people" view. As they already had feelings of racial superiority over many, or most other races.
 
There's always British Israelism - the idea that the British are descendants of one of the lost tribes of Israel and the Royal Family direct descendants of King David. Note that this belief distinguishes between "Jews" and "Israelites", so it's not incompatible with anti-semitism.

You can also throw in the beliefs that the Holy Grail is buried at Glastonbury.

Cheers,
Nigel.
 
I would suspect the appeal would be limited by practicality, given the amount of white people in England who then and now who have recent wider British ancestry (internal migration). It certainly would not be popular in the White Dominions, where the English identity both took over and was subsumed into a wider British identity.
 

Oh, huh - never heard of them. Thanks!

An interesting idea: make them to claim the Anglo-Saxon ancestry lands in Germany and the Low Countries. It would be interesting for sure :D

Heh. That's one difference between "English Nazism" and the real thing - 'England' has plenty of lebensraum already.

Perhaps they would believe that England was ruled by barbarians (the Celts and the Saxons) and "wretched foreigners" (the Romans) until the Normans conquered England and "civilized it." Due to this France would be rightfully under English rule. The Welsh and Scots would be similar to the Poles or Czechs; some of them being able to be "Anglicized" and some having to be sterilized or otherwise forcefully rendered extinct. I imagine that they would want to reconquer Ireland and that the Irish Catholics would be like the Jews. They might still have a idea that is analogous to Lebensraum but with colonies such as India and Africa being forcefully Anglicized with the natives enslaved and forced to live on reservations.

My notion is that they idealize the Saxons - heroic warrior-folk who defeated the Celts... only to be treacherously usurped by the Normans!

I would suspect the appeal would be limited by practicality, given the amount of white people in England who then and now who have recent wider British ancestry (internal migration). It certainly would not be popular in the White Dominions, where the English identity both took over and was subsumed into a wider British identity.

In my story, they will be a fairly obscure little group, yes.
 
My notion is that they idealize the Saxons - heroic warrior-folk who defeated the Celts... only to be treacherously usurped by the Normans.

How do the Vikings fit into things? The Danes and the Norse might be seen as an equal Germanic component to the English nation, on par with the Angles, Saxons, and Bytes as part of their ethnogenesis. The rule of Harold the Great gives them reason to claim Norway, Denmark, and possibly Iceland and Greenland by proxy (not part of his realms, but the association is there).

The Normans are viewed as corrupt Germanics who abandoned their language and culture in favor of lesser societies (Gallo-Roman) unlike the Anglo-Saxons, whose language and traditions prevailed (though imperfectly) over both the lesser cultures who came before them (Celts and Romans) and who ruled after them (Norman French, Welsh Tudors, Scottish Stuarts, etc). I'm not sure how the modern British monarchy fits into this worldview - foreigners or Germanic brethren (who could possibly give them claim to Hannover and other parts of Germany)?
 
How do the Vikings fit into things? The Danes and the Norse might be seen as an equal Germanic component to the English nation, on par with the Angles, Saxons, and Bytes as part of their ethnogenesis. The rule of Harold the Great gives them reason to claim Norway, Denmark, and possibly Iceland and Greenland by proxy (not part of his realms, but the association is there).

That might be a little too 'just like real Nazis' IMO - the British Empire already has plenty of lebensraum; it just needs to keep the little Anglo-Saxon nations from spinning off into independence.

The Normans are viewed as corrupt Germanics who abandoned their language and culture in favor of lesser societies (Gallo-Roman) unlike the Anglo-Saxons, whose language and traditions prevailed (though imperfectly) over both the lesser cultures who came before them (Celts and Romans) and who ruled after them (Norman French, Welsh Tudors, Scottish Stuarts, etc). I'm not sure how the modern British monarchy fits into this worldview - foreigners or Germanic brethren (who could possibly give them claim to Hannover and other parts of Germany)?

The monarchy's a good question. Probably some of the Anglosophists create torturous explanations for how the royal family is actually 100% Anglo-Saxon, others cast about for alternative royals, and still others disdain the entire idea ("What England really needs is a leader chosen by the (respectable) people!").
 
I don't see where this English Naziism would come from. England has no Volkisch Movement, no Junker class, no army-based militarism, no sense of parliament being illegitimate. Ideologies don't appear out of nowhere. Where's the POD?
 

Kingpoleon

Banned
Nazism has Christians making up at least 70% of the party in the 1930's. The really amazing part of this would be if they re-invented the Old English language, maybe even Saxon. If you need a language research specialist, shoot me a PM.

Onto books though. Perhaps "My Struggle" by Oswald Mosleyy, "How The True Revolution Began" by Arnold Leese, and a few other OTL authors and fascists could write stories.
 
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By "English Nazism" I mean a group that's based on roughly the same stupid ideas of National Socialism - racial superiority, militarism, "English Christianity" shorn of its Jewish roots (but without embracing 'Celtic Christianity'), anti-Marxism, totalitarianism, etc. We'll call it Anglosophy. What kind of crazy-ass notions might this group hold about English history, religion, etc.? Things on par with Himmler-style mystical lunacy.
England has alwasy been victorious in battles and war, its might empire is proof that "God" wants britain to rule the world, bring everyone under its governing.
The monarch is the head of state but the Prime Minister is the true power, he is the voice and mind of the people, he keeps the jews and socialist out of politics.
No emancipation of Catholics in 1829 or Jews in 1858. The Rothschild, banking family are band from Britain

(Full disclosure, I'm trolling for ideas for article and book titles to stock the Anglosophy library in a short story set in Victorian London. Creators of cool ideas will of course be given due credit in the story when I put it up on Amazon.)

Well there would be novels such as:

"Alice is Liberal-land" Lewis Carroll
"A tale of one city and it's struggle with immigrants" Charles Dickens
"Britain - The Island of Treasure" Robert L. Stevenson
"The Blood Sucking Jew" Bram Stoker
"War of the World" H. G. Wells
"The Importance of being British." Oscar Wilde
"Sherlock Holmes" Arthur Conan Doyle (these novels show how the jews and immigrants try and trick the honest law of Britain but are stopped by SH)

(Auto) Biographies
"My Struggle" Rev Jack Rippington, a vicar in Whitehall who fights against the immoral women who sold their body to spread diseases.
"The life and execution of Benjamin Disraeli" The politician who tried to ruin Britain
"Politics and Religion" Archbishop William Howley of Canterbury

Text Books:
"Ethnology of British People" Sir Henry Thompson, 1st Baronet
The must have book is "Natural Social Selection" by Charles Darwin, a detailed document that shows why Anglosophy is the way forward.
 
I don't see where this English Naziism would come from. England has no Volkisch Movement, no Junker class, no army-based militarism, no sense of parliament being illegitimate. Ideologies don't appear out of nowhere. Where's the POD?

For my purposes, I don't really need a POD. But in OTL, the mixture of popular currents of 'scientific racism,' occultism & pseudo-history, imperialism, rising foreign powers and economic worries could easily have resulted in a late Victorian "English Nazi" movement, even if it didn't unseat the traditional parties.
 
My notion is that they idealize the Saxons - heroic warrior-folk who defeated the Celts... only to be treacherously usurped by the Normans!

But if they vilify the Normans, then they're disavowing the great victories of Norman England and even of its successors. Would they be ready to throw away Crecy, Poitiers and Agincourt, not to mention Trafalgar and Waterloo?

It seems more likely to me that they'd view Englishmen as a combination of warrior races that together are more than the sum of their parts. Celts, Romans, Anglo-Saxons and Normans were great even by themselves, but in their synthesis as Englishmen, they are the true imperial and conquering race.
 
I would imagine it would be the Anglo Saxons they look to.
Fits in with the Germanic thing of the real nazis and gives them an excuse for not being too pro monarchy despite being right wing (bloody frenchies!).
 
But if they vilify the Normans, then they're disavowing the great victories of Norman England and even of its successors. Would they be ready to throw away Crecy, Poitiers and Agincourt, not to mention Trafalgar and Waterloo?

It seems more likely to me that they'd view Englishmen as a combination of warrior races that together are more than the sum of their parts. Celts, Romans, Anglo-Saxons and Normans were great even by themselves, but in their synthesis as Englishmen, they are the true imperial and conquering race.

Hmmm, a sort of Hybrid Vigour Eugenicism and probably combined with a cultural supremacist attitude.
Though one wonders what would happen to the poor here :eek:
 
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