Thande
Donor
Most probably one-one-one as you say, come to think of it (DURING THE WAR, the Messerschmitt Bf 109 and 110 were referred to as "One-Oh-Nine" and "One-One-Oh" respectively).
Possible operators of the F-111
- Thread starter Pangur
- Start date
Most probably one-one-one as you say, come to think of it (DURING THE WAR, the Messerschmitt Bf 109 and 110 were referred to as "One-Oh-Nine" and "One-One-Oh" respectively).
I too advocate the possibility of a land-based F-111B acting as an interceptor, replacing the F-106. Another possibility I've thought of, is the use of the -111B as a "heavy strike" bomber flying off the carriers a la the A-5 Vigilante. Of course, this would require the carriers still having a SIOP mission in delivering nukes (not likely past the POD mentioned here), but it had the range, the payload and the speed for that job. However, I knew nothing about the visibility issue in landing on a carrier; this would likely do for a naval strike Vark by itself.
Using the F-111 to replace the Vigilante is of course possible (and would be a much better job for the aircraft), but its a hard cost to justify when talking about lower-level flights. The USN already had a good bombtruck in the 1960s - the A-6 Intruder. The F-111 would be able to fly at supersonic speeds at lower altitudes, but how much of an improvement is that for the money?
It might be worth the cost IF it also replaced multiple airframes with one (say, the RA-5, A-6 and KA-3/EA-3 in one shot?), but I don't know whether the Navy would go for something like that; after all, the A-6 alone was a well-proven and reliable bird.
von hitchofen
Banned
the F-111K, a complete dog's breakfast of aeroplane by the sound of it, would have been known as the General Dynamics Merlin GR.1 in RAF service, with serials in the XV9xx range IIRC
it would have been a F-111A with with some UK avionics, radios, a retractable refuelling probe fwd of the cockpit (slightly off centre line so not masked by canopy frame when extended), sturdier FB-111 main gear for rougher field performance and the main bomb bay had bracing to support a belly pylon when the bay was used as aux fuel tank.
the Aardvark was classic case of those who needed it couldn't afford it, and those who could afford it, didn't need it
both Israel and Iran thought the F-16 more suitable for their needs, and placed orders
it would have been a F-111A with with some UK avionics, radios, a retractable refuelling probe fwd of the cockpit (slightly off centre line so not masked by canopy frame when extended), sturdier FB-111 main gear for rougher field performance and the main bomb bay had bracing to support a belly pylon when the bay was used as aux fuel tank.
the Aardvark was classic case of those who needed it couldn't afford it, and those who could afford it, didn't need it
both Israel and Iran thought the F-16 more suitable for their needs, and placed orders
BAC 111 was called One Eleven(in fact, it is often rendered as 1-11)
IIRC, you don't change wing sweep when using those; it seems to be the case with the MiG-23. Crappy, I know, but it's lighter than swivel pylons
I think if the RAF had kept the F-111K order, they probably would have bought a LOT more than the original 50 plane order.
Remember, the F-111 had very good combat radius, and that would have made it very attractive as a replacement for the RAF V-bomber fleet. In short, the F-111K (and probably an upgraded version named "F-111M") could potentially have taken the place of the Panavia Tornado in addition to replacing the Avro Vulcan for longer-range air strikes well behind the Iron Curtain--in short, the RAF would probably have bought close to 150 planes, in my humble opinion! And I could see Rolls-Royce evolve the afterburning version of the Spey turbofan engine to fit the F-111K/M, probably rated as high as 23,000-24,000 lb. thrust, just below that of the later TF30-P-100 engine of the F-111F.
If I remember correctly, the F-111K was eventually developed into the FB-111A for SAC, essentially with longer span wings of the F-111B and the revised Triple Plow II intakes that cured the compressor stalls that plagued the F-111A. I think the F-111K would have used the Triple Plow II intake....
Remember, the F-111 had very good combat radius, and that would have made it very attractive as a replacement for the RAF V-bomber fleet. In short, the F-111K (and probably an upgraded version named "F-111M") could potentially have taken the place of the Panavia Tornado in addition to replacing the Avro Vulcan for longer-range air strikes well behind the Iron Curtain--in short, the RAF would probably have bought close to 150 planes, in my humble opinion! And I could see Rolls-Royce evolve the afterburning version of the Spey turbofan engine to fit the F-111K/M, probably rated as high as 23,000-24,000 lb. thrust, just below that of the later TF30-P-100 engine of the F-111F.
If I remember correctly, the F-111K was eventually developed into the FB-111A for SAC, essentially with longer span wings of the F-111B and the revised Triple Plow II intakes that cured the compressor stalls that plagued the F-111A. I think the F-111K would have used the Triple Plow II intake....
Pangur
Donor
The mustang effect ! Take one decent US aircraft frame with not so engines add a good Brit engien - result one good aircraft
The TF30 wasn't a terrible engine, just far too complicated. The people who designed it clearly forgot all about the KISS principle (keep it simple, stupid) and went all out. In the F-111, as it was meant as a strike aircraft, the right intakes had the effect of fixing many of its problems, as opposed to the F-14, where is complexity was a problem.
Actually this was proposed by the British government and the proposal was supported by both the military and the Minister of Defence Production. It foundered on a number of issues but it primarily fell afoul of the Defence Minister, Paul Hellyer, who saw it as a scam and made sure that cabinet would reject it by presenting it in a way that would ensure rejection.
If you really want to help the Canadian military then have a POD where Hellyer is hit by a bus (or abducted by the aliens he now believes in). Trudeau may have ignored the military but Hellyer actively tried to destroy it.
Yeah, Hellyer has proven to be a bit of a nutball, and he was one of the weakest of the ministers back then.
Pangur
Donor
I never cease to surprised how stuff, engines, rifles what not get designed and makes it's way into production which is not up to scratch
The Spey was to wide for the Phantom, which lead to compromised aerodynamics (not enough 'coke bottle effect') and more drag. This meant that, although the Spey was a more powerful engine, it wasn't as fast an aircraft. It did have a better range as I recall.